Stayers Hurdle 2021

[Rooster Booster]

What are we disagreeing on ?
He said they were going to see if he was a stayers horse and that he would be aiming for this race as his season target.

He mentioned the stayers hurdle after his win in March last season and then again after the persian war, his comments are below.
Note that he thought it was an open division.
Note he thought he's a proper stayer.
Note the serious feeling.
Note he's not gone chasing.
Note, he talks bollocks most of the time, especially when excited, but his objectivity and actual actions with this horse has actually been fine.

Which is why I slightly disagreed on the point I highlighted.


Nicholls said: "He jumped great and travelled round as we'd hoped.

"People have said we should have gone chasing with him but I've got a serious feeling he'd be very competitive in a Stayers' Hurdle this year.

"Another year over hurdles will do him good. We can run him in the Long Distance Hurdle on Hennessy day at Newbury and go from there.

"If he's competitive there then we can go down that route and then if not we can then think about chasing.

"He'd never be an Arkle sort of horse anyway, one day he might be a Gold Cup staying chaser.

"He's just a proper stayer. Last year he was just never a natural over his hurdles.

"But he's ironed that out now and it's a great division to go and target. There are some obvious races for him and Newbury will tell us a lot and three miles won't be a problem.

"I think it's an open division too and if you go chasing the RSA will always have some serious horses knocking about.

Ok perhaps we are agreeing as he said Newbury will tell us a lot I think it did and I think it was used to help him get closer to the targets. Last year he saw the potential in the horse but the horse was very much a work in progress. At that stage any targets were aspirational. After Newbury aspirational targets were turned into actual ones. Cheltenham became less likely and Aintree more so. I see PN as a very positive optimistic individual. He will always have a number of aspirational targets for his better horses but I just don’t see him as having a Cheltenham bias like some trainers do .... at least not these day anyhow.

[Quevega]

Ok perhaps we are agreeing as he said Newbury will tell us a lot I think it did and I think it was used to help him get closer to the targets. Last year he saw the potential in the horse but the horse was very much a work in progress. At that stage any targets were aspirational. After Newbury aspirational targets were turned into actual ones. Cheltenham became less likely and Aintree more so. I see PN as a very positive optimistic individual. He will always have a number of aspirational targets for his better horses but I just don’t see him as having a Cheltenham bias like some trainers do .... at least not these day anyhow.

Probably cos a lot of his horses have not been good enough. But he desperately wants them to be at Cheltenham.
Does he have a Cheltenham bias ?
Which races does he namecheck in that quote ?
Stayers, Arkle, Gold Cup, RSA.
He gets giddy post race, that's for sure.

But joking aside, more often than not, he makes the correct decisions.
Of course he does, as he's an excellent trainer. One of the very best.
Just a gobshite in interviews.

[Rooster Booster]

Probably cos a lot of his horses have not been good enough. But he desperately wants them to be at Cheltenham.
Does he have a Cheltenham bias ?
Which races does he namecheck in that quote ?
Stayers, Arkle, Gold Cup, RSA.
He gets giddy post race, that's for sure.

But joking aside, more often than not, he makes the correct decisions.
Of course he does, as he's an excellent trainer. One of the very best.
Just a gobshite in interviews.

Some very valid points sir.

[Spectre]

Apart from the unfortunate rerouting of the relkeel.
Do you think he's been well placed since ?
I mean the novice chase debut at Warwick, FFS ???

No, not at all. I think he's finding out he's a stayer by accident rather than by design. I think he'd seen him as a two and half mile horse. On breeding you'd understand why, but what he's showing suggests he needs a trip.

His two chases just showed he can't jump. Too clumsy. Too lazy. Possibly both. There's no point going back there again, unless they find they've got nowhere to go over hurdles after this season is over. There's absolutely nothing to lose by taking the Stayers in, and I genuinely wouldn't understand it if they skipped the Festival.

Anyway, I think we essentially agree about the horse, if not the trainer. You don't rate him, I think he's still learning how to handle a good one. To be fair it's taken his neighbour Skelton long enough to not ruin his graded horses by running them in handicaps all season.

[robith]

Who cares if they win at aintree unless it’s the GN. Without cheating, name the last 3 aintree hurdle winners.... I could only remember 1 without looking.

This is the attitude that ends with a 6 day festival with a G1 2m4f "championship" race

[Kautostar]

This is the attitude that ends with a 6 day festival with a G1 2m4f "championship" race

I’m not against a ryanair hurdle to be honest, I personally think there should be a 2 mile, 2m4f and 3m+ champion of both hurdles and chases. A 6 day festival no thank you or 5 for that matter.

[Istabraq]

I’m not against a ryanair hurdle to be honest, I personally think there should be a 2 mile, 2m4f and 3m+ champion of both hurdles and chases. A 6 day festival no thank you or 5 for that matter.

That would be the end of AP punting for me (Cheltenham), hard enough now with there being so many options....

[Faugheen_Machine]

I’m not against a ryanair hurdle to be honest, I personally think there should be a 2 mile, 2m4f and 3m+ champion of both hurdles and chases. A 6 day festival no thank you or 5 for that matter.

We need 2m, 2m 4f and 3 mile mare hurdles and chases too.

Where would you draw the line?

[Faugheen_Machine]

That would be the end of AP punting for me (Cheltenham), hard enough now with there being so many options....

It annoys the hell out of me that people think the festival is better for all the dilution.

Wouldn't it have been good to see Shishkin Vs Envoi, or Envoi against Monkfish. Clashes like that would get loads more interest in the sport.

[Kautostar]

We need 2m, 2m 4f and 3 mile mare hurdles and chases too.

Where would you draw the line?

Now you mention it what a great idea!

On a serious note however I don’t see why middle distance horses should have to step up or down to attempt to become a champion if their optimum is over the middle distance. I get that it waters things down a little but so be it.

[Istabraq]

Faugheen_Machine

I remember when Vroum Vroum Mag had eight entries, best of luck with your ante post efforts there and any more races being created will just make it impossible, bookies on the other hand will be queuing up to sponsor such races knowing their profits go through the roof from ante post non runners...

[Kautostar]

That would be the end of AP punting for me (Cheltenham), hard enough now with there being so many options....

How do you cope with the novice divisions as there are all 3 available for novice hurdlers and chasers plus the established chasers have all 3 as an option. Handicappers have all 3 distances as an option. I don’t know why we exclude the middle distance hurdlers for a championship race.

[Faugheen_Machine]

Now you mention it what a great idea!

On a serious note however I don’t see why middle distance horses should have to step up or down to attempt to become a champion if their optimum is over the middle distance. I get that it waters things down a little but so be it.

Why not go for the Grade 1 at Aintree 3 weeks later though?

I don't understand why everything has to be at Cheltenham? They might as well move the Grand National, scrap the rest of the national hunt season and be done with it.

The only people that gain from extra races are the trainers, owners and jockeys. Racing fans are the ones that lose out and the sport will end up much poorer for it.

We need the best horses to race against each other imo.

[Faugheen_Machine]

Faugheen_Machine

I remember when Vroum Vroum Mag had eight entries, best of luck with your ante post efforts there and any more races being created will just make it impossible, bookies on the other hand will be queuing up to sponsor such races knowing their profits go through the roof from ante post non runners...

I think it's bigger than ante post betting. Racing would end up uncompetitive. Let's face it, there aren't enough good NH horses to go round as it is.

[Istabraq]

How do you cope with the novice divisions as there are all 3 available.

Not well is the answer, but a few years ago the Marsh and the Potato race didn’t exist.
But my biggest issue is with trainers using the handicaps for their novices instead of sending them to the novice events, just adds another complication to the mix....