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The interview he gave struck me as being someone who is terrified of losing. Whether that's because, mentally, Nicky can't cope with it or because he's afraid of what people will think if it happened. He's too precious of the horse IMO. That's why I think he was pulled out.
His constant referencing of Nico having to lead him in and how upset he was by it - understandably I must add - make me think he just won't risk him unless everything falls right. If I owned one of the other horses he ran at Sandown on Saturday, I'd be on the phone first thing Sunday morning demanding to know why it's acceptable to "bottom out" my horse in "horrible" ground.
Personally, I think he's talking bollocks and should be called out on it. In all other sports, those making the decisions get questioned and have to justify their reasoning. He doesn't seem to think that the rules apply to him. Fair play for giving the interview as he didn't have to though.
I personally just think the horse wasn’t himself the day before the race so they pulled him out. Whether he had a knock or something equally small. They then used the ground as an excuse to pull the horse out of the race and to avoid any questions about his ‘wellbeing’ in the expectation that the ground would be heavy the following day.
However, ground ultimate being quicker than heavy ruined the cover story and so they have been trying to save face ever since.
Have any you got CPS covered with much so far? He’s such a hard bet to pull the trigger on. I can NRNB coming in later this season, even on the championship races. If and when it does come in how much will you put on CPS or is he a horse worth leaving until the day??
Looking at my records, I have 4 points split between 13/2 and 11/2 on him - all bets placed in April.
Have any you got CPS covered with much so far? He’s such a hard bet to pull the trigger on. I can NRNB coming in later this season, even on the championship races. If and when it does come in how much will you put on CPS or is he a horse worth leaving until the day??
Given how fragile he is, he might be one that will be cut more than expected when the race goes NRNB.
Have any you got CPS covered with much so far? He’s such a hard bet to pull the trigger on. I can NRNB coming in later this season, even on the championship races. If and when it does come in how much will you put on CPS or is he a horse worth leaving until the day??
Haven't bothered, nor will I till he's NRNB. Division crying out for some new blood so I hope he's everything they want him to be, he's just too fragile to carry a bean of my money until NRNB, and at the time I'D have no issue under the right circumstance staking more to win more at a shorter price, than take his current price now,
I've been saying for over a year (check out the 2020 QM thread) that Altior has been regressing since his first QM win. This isn't unusual nor has it prevented him from winning more G1s but, for me, he just is finding it harder each time.
The main problem with rating him for each race is that any ratings depend on a 'base' horse that you assume to have run to its mark. The smaller the field the more difficult this is and the last time that Altior ran in a race with double figure runners was the 2016 Supreme. Most of the races that Altior has had in the last couple of years, he's been given a rating that is based on beaten horses running at or above their previous best and I don't think that that can be sustained indefinitely.
Until he reappears we will have no idea where he is in the general scheme of things and, if they're about the same price, Politologue is a much more reliable each way bet.
Regardless of whether or not Henderson should have run Altior, or suggested that he may not run due to the ground earlier in the week if you trained/owned a rising 11 year old who had run at pretty much the top level throughout his career would you not be cautious and mind the horse?
Most things perhaps point to Altior not being quite the superstar he once was, but as others have said, at 2 miles he has been the dominant force and kept grinding out the wins, however unpretty.
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw him once before the festival, a try at a third QMCC, then him retired. The horse owes them nothing and I don't see anything wrong with them minding him for the Spring target.
The QM field is generally a small one and realistically there are only a few genuine top class performers so if getting there fit and well i would fully expect him to be there fighting at the end. I would love to see him come out on top regardless of the opposition and at 7/1 he will be carrying my money.
I've been saying for over a year (check out the 2020 QM thread) that Altior has been regressing since his first QM win. This isn't unusual nor has it prevented him from winning more G1s but, for me, he just is finding it harder each time.
Good analogy that.
I remember going to a bash some years ago and Steve Redgrave was a guest, he was open about the fact his later Olympic glories were much physically harder as the body aged, training regimes had to change, everything took so much more effort and recovery times were longer.
I don't see things a whole lot different for horses and Hendo, I think, recognises this with Altior, running him in very deep ground it could have been weeks before he recovered fully and then your preparation for March is impacted.
We have to accept those closest to horses know best however disappointing their decisions are for us...
The clerk of the course described the going on the chase course for both days as soft good to soft in places.
The time for the two 2 mile chases on saturday was under 4 minutes, 3 seconds slower than standard.
Neither of these suggest "very deep ground", so I dont get it.
As a backer of Politologue ante post for the race I am the opposite of having an axe to grind
Good analogy that.
I remember going to a bash some years ago and Steve Redgrave was a guest, he was open about the fact his later Olympic glories were much physically harder as the body aged, training regimes had to change, everything took so much more effort and recovery times were longer. I don't see things a whole lot different for horses and Hendo, I think, recognises this with Altior, running him in very deep ground it could have been weeks before he recovered fully and then your preparation for March is impacted.
We have to accept those closest to horses know best however disappointing their decisions are for us...
You are right and its an interesting point (the biology of ageing). As cells age they function less well and how well organs function depends on how well the cells within them function. An older racehorse will feel the effects of racing on their major organs (particularly heart and lungs) more than younger horses, which is one of the reasons they are campaigned sparingly. Another issue which is particularly acute in horses, is adverse immune responses to high levels of stress (ie. racing). Stress can reduce how well a horses immune system functions, which can create a host of health issues - one of which being inflammation taking a lot longer to heal in an older horse than a younger one.
The clerk of the course described the going on the chase course for both days as soft good to soft in places.
The time for the two 2 mile chases on saturday was under 4 minutes, 3 seconds slower than standard.
Neither of these suggest "very deep ground", so I dont get it.
It's been many years since I've taken any notice of the official description at Sandown, the difference between the two courses is stark despite being a matter of yards apart for 90% of the circuit.
I think part of the problem is that the ground differs at various points, it can be genuinely good to soft just past the stands and deep heavy from the railway to two out...
Altior will not run in the rearranged Peterborough Chase at Cheltenham on Friday. He will wait for the Desert Orchid chase at Kempton at Xmas
Brilliant part of the Henderson interview, when he started talking about this race being rearranged and Altior could run, then when she said 2 and a half miles he corrected her to say 2m 3f and then started immediately backtracking and saying we might run. He was just about to commit to another race he might not fancy nearer the time. Just like he did the last time we had all this fuss.
He needs to try and calm down his witterings, as this seems to be what gets him onto trouble.
Willie Mullins ponders, and is prone to Musing. - This gets him into trouble.
Paul Nicholls blurts, and is prone to bullishness - This gets him into trouble.
Nicky Henderson worries, and is prone to wittering.
Which is why I call him 'wet' all the time.
I prefer a ponderer and a blurt to a worrier myself. In that order.
The longer I've been doing this, the less I pay attention to comments from trainers now.
I remember when getting in to this, feeling like I'd get an edge by watching stable tours, especially the Paul Nicholls youtube one he used to do where he got all the horses out and walked them around.
I've probably gone too far the other way now and don't put enough effort in to find the gems.... but I doubt I'll revert back as there is so much shite to wade through....
I'd go 'muse', 'bullish', 'wet' in that order too though.
The longer I've been doing this, the less I pay attention to comments from trainers now.
I remember when getting in to this, feeling like I'd get an edge by watching stable tours, especially the Paul Nicholls youtube one he used to do where he got all the horses out and walked them around.
I've probably gone too far the other way now and don't put enough effort in to find the gems.... but I doubt I'll revert back as there is so much shite to wade through....
I'd go 'muse', 'bullish', 'wet' in that order too though.
Yep, I think it's always well worth listening to them, but you have to know their characters and sift out the bits that may be of use.
It's not easy, and they don't always fully make all the decisions themselves and sometimes have to tow the line to their owners.
Unfortunately, it sometimes gets a bit political and this can lead to them being economical with the truth/transparency.
I'm pretty sure they all have good intentions 99% of the time.
It's been many years since I've taken any notice of the official description at Sandown, the difference between the two courses is stark despite being a matter of yards apart for 90% of the circuit.
I think part of the problem is that the ground differs at various points, it can be genuinely good to soft just past the stands and deep heavy from the railway to two out...
Fair enough Ista, I have never been to the course. If he runs on suitable ground at kempton I will accept his reasoning.
I have been pushed and towed out of the Cheltenham car park on a couple of occasions though
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