Queen Mother Champion Chase 2021

[Kevloaf]

I really don’t understand why they are even considering keeping Defi at 2miles. He ran his best race since his Triumph when he won the Marsh (JLT) so why go back down in distance the following season. It’s like Min all over again, too many attempts at 2 mile when he would improve and win going further like he showed.

You don't understand why the Tingle Creek winner, would try and win the Tingle Creek again?


You can't understand that? You cannot possibly see why the winner of the Schloer Chase (G2), Tingle Creek (G1), Clarance House (G1) all at 2 miles, would try and do that again the following season?


He's still only 7.








Incredible statement.

[ComplyOrDie]

The Triumph is moot, as I am specifically talking chasing. What he done as a juvenile has little relevance to his 2m chase form.

He's won horrific renewals that's all. At least Dodging Bullets actually beat Sprinter Sacre, although supoosedly due to SS having issues, I might add. Not one horse Defi has beat over 2m in open company has made me think that was a great performance.

For me it's plainly obvious to see, but I guess we all view these things differently, it would be boring otherwise.

[Kevloaf]

The Triumph is moot, as I am specifically talking chasing. What he done as a juvenile has little relevance to his 2m chase form.

He's won horrific renewals that's all. At least Dodging Bullets actually beat Sprinter Sacre, although supoosedly due to SS having issues, I might add. Not one horse Defi has beat over 2m in open company has made me think that was a great performance.

For me it's plainly obvious to see, but I guess we all view these things differently, it would be boring otherwise.

Why are Un De Sceaux and Sprinter Sacre so different in your scenario's?


Dodging Bullets beat Sprinter Scare, so well done him?
Defi Du Seuil beat Un De Sceaux, so it's a horrific renewal?



Plain as day.



To better news:
On PTKO
She’s in great order. We had intended on starting her back at Gowran Park last week, but the ground just got a bit quick for her, so we took her out. I’d say she could well go for the Shloer Chase at Cheltenham now. She seems to love the track there. We gave her a break during the winter last season, but she’s had a good summer break this time, so we might well kick on through the winter with her.



Glad to see they're considering the Shloer Chase
Will hopefully find out how good she is there and that she can earn a spot in the Tingle Creek. She'll hack up, as Defi Du Seuil is shite.

[ComplyOrDie]

Honestly, even if Defi had won the QMCC last season he'd be the best of a really poor bunch, IMO.

Altior is the great 2m of this generation (though even he will be 11 next year so not ideal), and Defi would not get within the same parish as Altior. Couldn't even lay up with Politologue in the QMCC, who has been beat by Altior on numerous occasions.

I wouldn't be banking on this years Arkle form to prove Defi is just average over 2m. I'll be surprised if they turn out to be that good but you never know. Can't be worse than Duc Des Genievres year. Can it?

[The King Pimm]

You don't understand why the Tingle Creek winner, would try and win the Tingle Creek again?


You can't understand that? You cannot possibly see why the winner of the Schloer Chase (G2), Tingle Creek (G1), Clarance House (G1) all at 2 miles, would try and do that again the following season?


He's still only 7.








Incredible statement.

Yes I agree about the seasonal targets before the Festival, he won them all on route to the festival last season and the opposition this season has not markedly improved especially with the Irish dominating the Arkle & Marsh so yes he will be very competitive in all the 2 mile races he won last season and there is a lot of money to be won. But if you owned him would you enter him in the QMCC or Ryanair this year or go balls out and go for the Gold Cup given the lack of Gold Cup horses JP potentially has again this season. I personally think he’d perform better in the Ryanair. I think the absence of Geraghty will play its part, I thought Geraghty rode him really well and a new jockey may not get the time to work with him now JP has for now opted not to have a British retained number 1.

[Kevloaf]

Honestly, even if Defi had won the QMCC last season he'd be the best of a really poor bunch, IMO.

Altior is the great 2m of this generation (though even he will be 11 next year so not ideal), and Defi would not get within the same parish as Altior. Couldn't even lay up with Politologue in the QMCC, who has been beat by Altior on numerous occasions.

I wouldn't be banking on this years Arkle form to prove Defi is just average over 2m. I'll be surprised if they turn out to be that good but you never know. Can't be worse than Duc Des Genievres year. Can it?

"Couldn't even lay up with Politilogue", that's it, you genuinely believe that was him performing to his best that day. That's fine, I know why we disagree.



How the Arkle horses get on may well mean Defi Du Seuil does rack up some more G1's.... but having backed PTKO for the Tingle Creek and QMCC, let's hope you're right and DDS is no good at 2m

[Kevloaf]

Yes I agree about the seasonal targets before the Festival, he won them all on route to the festival last season and the opposition this season has not markedly improved especially with the Irish dominating the Arkle & Marsh so yes he will be very competitive in all the 2 mile races he won last season and there is a lot of money to be won. But if you owned him would you enter him in the QMCC or Ryanair this year or go balls out and go for the Gold Cup given the lack of Gold Cup horses JP potentially has again this season. I personally think he’d perform better in the Ryanair. I think the absence of Geraghty will play its part, I thought Geraghty rode him really well and a new jockey may not get the time to work with him now JP has for now opted not to have a British retained number 1.

If I owned him I can assure you he'd be running in the Tingle Creek.

I'd probably then go for the King George as I'd love to test the stamina theory out.

Then I'd like to enjoy the Dublin Racing Festival so I'd go there.... and even if he'd been beaten at 2m, and beaten at 3m, I wouldn't run him in the Ryanair out of principal.


I assume he's already gelded too, so I'd go a bit further and go through Gender reassignment with him/her and I'd pick up the Mares Chase at the festival.

[ComplyOrDie]

Yeah that's one reason, but can accept he didn't run his race.

The races he won have also been tosh, IMO, so there is another reason

[The King Pimm]

If I owned him I can assure you he'd be running in the Tingle Creek.

I'd probably then go for the King George as I'd love to test the stamina theory out.

Then I'd like to enjoy the Dublin Racing Festival so I'd go there.... and even if he'd been beaten at 2m, and beaten at 3m, I wouldn't run him in the Ryanair out of principal.


I assume he's already gelded too, so I'd go a bit further and go through Gender reassignment with him/her and I'd pick up the Mares Chase at the festival.

I like the sex change idea!!! Your hatred of the Ryanair does not waver and in my best Kevin Keegan voice when he lost his shit with Fergie when Newcastle manager ...I would just luv it if Defi Du Sol entered the Ryanair this season and won it

[The King Pimm]

You tube link would not work sorry

[Kevloaf]

I like the sex change idea!!! Your hatred of the Ryanair does not waver and in my best Kevin Keegan voice when he lost his shit with Fergie when Newcastle manager ...I would just luv it if Defi Du Sol entered the Ryanair this season and won it

Haha, having backed Defi Du Seuil at 16/1 for the Ryanair, so would I


I just don't think it's hard to see why they'll stick to 2m until March


'Insert Video' second in from the right..... just copy and paste any YouTube URL

[TigerRolllllll]

QM could be an easier option that Ryanair this year.....crazy a that sounds

Happy to right last year off for several horses, given ground and other chaos going on

Backed Defi.....think the price is still good

[SamuelP]

"Altior is the great 2m of this generation (though even he will be 11 next year so not ideal), and Defi would not get within the same parish as Altior. Couldn't even lay up with Politologue in the QMCC, who has been beat by Altior on numerous occasions."

Sorry but Defi beat Politologue twice last season. Surely you can't just pick one race between them and make that sweeping statement. Altior beat Politilogue less than 2ls in the last Queen Mother he won. The margins don't appear to be as big as you are suggesting to me. Yes we can all probably agree Defi's optimum may be 2 and a half, but he's still a decent horse over 2m.

[Quevega]

Well, that was definitely a late night Friday chat

Not sure we've moved it on much either.

[Dessie the great]

DdS may well be a top class 2 mile chaser a d win the QMCC next year. However the times of his races have to be a concern. I know times arent everything but all pf the open G1 races he contested were slower then the other races on the same card.

The Shloer was run 2 seconds slower than the arkle trial won by PTKO on the same day over the same cd.

The Tingle Creek was slower than the novice G1 won by Esprit du Large on the same day over the same cd.

The ascot chase was slower than 2m4f handicappers ran their final 2 miles on the same day.

The QMCC was 2 seconds slower than the Arkle over the same cd even though it was run on faster ground.

The general opinion os that DdS had an off day in the QMCC, my view is that it was the fastest pace he has been forced to jump at and his jumping let him down on the day.

There seems to be a pattern that the open G1 races last year were of poor quality, there is no way a Un de Sceaux at his peak would run a slower time over 2m than handicappers running a half mile more. I think he has it all to prove over 2 miles against better opposition.

I hope PTKO takes him on in the Shloer and sets a fast pace and puts pressure on his jumping and we will see what both are made of.if its run at a sedate pace I would fancy DdS to win a sprint from the bottom of the hill, if run at a fast pace I think PTKO could have the race in safe keeping after the 2nd last. Will be interesting in any case, and we should learn a lot from it.

Fingers crossed they meet.