Queen Mother Champion Chase 2021

[Saxon Warrior]

Just had a watch of the 2020 Arkle again and can see Fakir only running here. Will be a 6yo by the next fest and thinks it has the class for this race.

I just did the same with Concertista in the Mares Novice Hurdle 2019 and 2020. She grows wings at Cheltenham, and it was only the 2 years off the track immediately prior to the race that stopped her winning the 2019 race.

[Kevloaf]

I just did the same with Concertista in the Mares Novice Hurdle 2019 and 2020. She grows wings at Cheltenham, and it was only the 2 years off the track immediately prior to the race that stopped her winning the 2019 race.

Where do you think she'll end up?

Champion Hurdle? Mares Hurdle?

[Saxon Warrior]

Where do you think she'll end up?

Champion Hurdle? Mares Hurdle?

Champion Hurdle

33/1 for the CH appeals more to me than 10/1 the Mares Hurdle, as she seems to thrive over the minimum trip at Cheltenham.

Concertista is by Nathaniel out of a 10F winning Selkirk mare, its all mid-distance flat pedigree, nothing connected to jump racing at all.

Concertista is a half-sister to two recent French 'black-type' winners:-

* Slalom (Sire: Intello) - he was unbeaten, and well fancied to beat Persian King and Sotsass, after 3 runs going into the French Derby last season, before a poor run. He came back with a big run beaten 1/2 length by Japan (Jalmoud 3rd) in the Grand Prix De Paris Group 1 next time out, but didnt run again after.

* Folamour (Sire: Intello) - 12F Listed winner, was unraced at 2, ran 4th behind Kew Gardens in the Grand Prix De Paris in 2018, then 3rd behind Ghaiyyath next time out.

She seemed to sprint up the Cheltenham Hill, in March and looks like she appreciates the fast pace of big-field quality races.
Looking at the Racing Post's Topspeed ratings, she thrives on quick run races, and not so much on slower ones, or on her one run so far at 2M4F.

if WPM is undecided where to target at Cheltenham next March, then her first run in the new season will be interesting. I hope they don't put her in a slow-paced small-field Grade 1, and manage to find her a pacey, 2M big field somewhere to see if she is up to it.

In the UK, the Greatwood Hurdle (off 148) would be interesting, or the Grade 2 International in December, both at Cheltenham, or even the 0-155 Listed handicap Hurdle that Epatante won at the Hennessy/Ladbroke meeting at Newbury at the end of Nov/start of Dec.

[somer1]

Where do you think she'll end up?

Champion Hurdle? Mares Hurdle?

How about she goes chasing?

[Saxon Warrior]

How about she goes chasing?

Not sure that would be the plan with her pedigree, but we all await plans for all of these horses, when the Stable Tours come out in October time.

[Dessie the great]

Long time reader, first time poster and I want to discuss Fakir Doudairies.

Fakir D'oudairies has to be the greatest hype horse of all time. Dont get me wrong you would love to own him but he is not a G1 horse over 2 miles.

He has a strike rate of 4 wins from 14 runs, 2 of which were in 4 yr old hurdles. Both horses that beat him in G1 4yr old hurdles have done nothing since. He was badly outpaced in the Supreme before staying on for 4th, Im not sure have any of the first 3 won a race this season?

As for his chase career, he beat Melon in his beginners receiving the allowance. Melon is probably more than a stone poorer away from Cheltenham in March. He then ran in a G1 novice over 2 1/2 miles, jumping well but it was a 50 50 call to see if he would have beaten Samcro if he stayed up. This led people to claim him to be the best novice jumper of a fence we had seen in years.

He dropped back to 2m at Lep at Christmas. He hadnt the pace to take the lead and was comprehensively out jumped and beaten by Notebook.

Next up was the Arkle, he obviously wanted to be front rank but the mare was quicker through the air over the 2nd and took his spot beside cashback. PTKO was also better over the 3rd last and faster away from it allowing her to switch over to the rail. They were stride for stride coming to the 2nd last and the mare winged it while Fakir put down and bundled his way through it. Both winged the last and the mare idled badly in my view on the run in allowing Fakir to close to 3/4 of a length. As soon as the lose horse came the mare picked up and easily put a length and half between them again within a 100 yards. I dont know how good the mare is but Fakir wont be beating her over 2 miles around Cheltenham in my view.

The pair are clearly decent as they pulled miles clear of the others but theform of the rest is questionable to say the least. Global C and Rouge Vif need flat tracks, notebook doesnt act around cheltenham and Al Dancer is not good enough and prob needs a step up in trip.

I couldnt be backing Fakir for a CC (Isnt fast enough or doesnt jump quick enough), maybe a Ryanair but I would be interested in him for a Gold Cup. Would have the tactical pace and is a good safe jumper. Would have a turn of foot if he stayed well.

[Lobos]

Long time reader, first time poster and I want to discuss Fakir Doudairies.

Fakir D'oudairies has to be the greatest hype horse of all time. Dont get me wrong you would love to own him but he is not a G1 horse over 2 miles.

He has a strike rate of 4 wins from 14 runs, 2 of which were in 4 yr old hurdles. Both horses that beat him in G1 4yr old hurdles have done nothing since. He was badly outpaced in the Supreme before staying on for 4th, Im not sure have any of the first 3 won a race this season?

As for his chase career, he beat Melon in his beginners receiving the allowance. Melon is probably more than a stone poorer away from Cheltenham in March. He then ran in a G1 novice over 2 1/2 miles, jumping well but it was a 50 50 call to see if he would have beaten Samcro if he stayed up. This led people to claim him to be the best novice jumper of a fence we had seen in years.

He dropped back to 2m at Lep at Christmas. He hadnt the pace to take the lead and was comprehensively out jumped and beaten by Notebook.

Next up was the Arkle, he obviously wanted to be front rank but the mare was quicker through the air over the 2nd and took his spot beside cashback. PTKO was also better over the 3rd last and faster away from it allowing her to switch over to the rail. They were stride for stride coming to the 2nd last and the mare winged it while Fakir put down and bundled his way through it. Both winged the last and the mare idled badly in my view on the run in allowing Fakir to close to 3/4 of a length. As soon as the lose horse came the mare picked up and easily put a length and half between them again within a 100 yards. I dont know how good the mare is but Fakir wont be beating her over 2 miles in my view.

The pair are clearly decent as they pulled miles clear of the others but theform of the rest is questionable to say the least. Global C and Rouge Vif need flat tracks, notebook doesnt act around cheltenham and Al Dancer is not good enough and prob needs a step up in trip.

I couldnt be backing Fakir for a CC (Isnt fast enough or doesnt jump quick enough), maybe a Ryanair but I would be interested in him for a Gold Cup. Would have the tactical pace and is a good safe jumper. Would have a turn of foot if he stayed well.

Very good read and hard to disagree with anything. Need to see him and the rest strutting their stuff this season before we get an idea of where they all fit in the jigsaw. At this point in time it's all about opinions.

[Spectre]

Welcome Dessie. That's pretty much how I feel about him. I don't believe he can turn the tables with PTKO, and from everything I've seen I think he'd benefit from a step up in trip. They Ryanair is probably his race this season, and the Gold Cup next.

What I will say though is that I think much will depend on what they do with Defi du Seuil. If PTKO comes over and beats Defi in the Schloer Chase in November, JP and Fran Berry may be left scratching their heads. Fakir may end up at 2 miles with Defi moving up in trip.

For what it's worth I think both would best suited by the Ryanair, but I actually see there's a possibility of Fakir in the Ryanair and Defi in the Gold Cup. If Defi gets turned over, there must be a temptation to aim him at the King George, and if he ran well at Kempton, they'd find it hard not to give the Gold Cup a shot. He was a better horse than Lostintranslation over two and half round Cheltenham, and that one has since only been beaten a length and half in the Gold Cup.

[ComplyOrDie]

Champion Hurdle

33/1 for the CH appeals more to me than 10/1 the Mares Hurdle, as she seems to thrive over the minimum trip at Cheltenham.

I agree with this 100%, and will be getting her on board very soon!

[Kevloaf]

Long time reader, first time poster and I want to discuss Fakir Doudairies.

Fakir D'oudairies has to be the greatest hype horse of all time. Dont get me wrong you would love to own him but he is not a G1 horse over 2 miles.

He has a strike rate of 4 wins from 14 runs, 2 of which were in 4 yr old hurdles. Both horses that beat him in G1 4yr old hurdles have done nothing since. He was badly outpaced in the Supreme before staying on for 4th, Im not sure have any of the first 3 won a race this season?

As for his chase career, he beat Melon in his beginners receiving the allowance. Melon is probably more than a stone poorer away from Cheltenham in March. He then ran in a G1 novice over 2 1/2 miles, jumping well but it was a 50 50 call to see if he would have beaten Samcro if he stayed up. This led people to claim him to be the best novice jumper of a fence we had seen in years.

He dropped back to 2m at Lep at Christmas. He hadnt the pace to take the lead and was comprehensively out jumped and beaten by Notebook.

Next up was the Arkle, he obviously wanted to be front rank but the mare was quicker through the air over the 2nd and took his spot beside cashback. PTKO was also better over the 3rd last and faster away from it allowing her to switch over to the rail. They were stride for stride coming to the 2nd last and the mare winged it while Fakir put down and bundled his way through it. Both winged the last and the mare idled badly in my view on the run in allowing Fakir to close to 3/4 of a length. As soon as the lose horse came the mare picked up and easily put a length and half between them again within a 100 yards. I dont know how good the mare is but Fakir wont be beating her over 2 miles around Cheltenham in my view.

The pair are clearly decent as they pulled miles clear of the others but theform of the rest is questionable to say the least. Global C and Rouge Vif need flat tracks, notebook doesnt act around cheltenham and Al Dancer is not good enough and prob needs a step up in trip.

I couldnt be backing Fakir for a CC (Isnt fast enough or doesnt jump quick enough), maybe a Ryanair but I would be interested in him for a Gold Cup. Would have the tactical pace and is a good safe jumper. Would have a turn of foot if he stayed well.

Strong starting statement, that he's the "greatest hype horse of all time?"

Just no where near true



I think it's a bit of a leap to believe that but also concede that you'd maybe back him in a Ryanair? You're almost conceeding that he is worthy of at least some hype as he'd be good enough to win a Festival Grade 1, and then you've gone even further to say you'd be interested in him to win a Gold Cup?

I'm confused a bit too, as it isn't like there is an army of people who think he's the most likely winner of the QMCC... I have seen a few people argue he's a decent value bet at this stage...but that doesn't equate to "hype", it's just people making a case?


I think he has the potential to shorten for the race (QMCC), and wouldn't be the owners strongest contender if he did go up in trip so it's feasilbe he does end up here. Perfectly valid he may go up in trip or end up in a handicap too!


He's somewhat appealing as it is a weak division though... which you also allude to. If he was clear of the novices last year (bar PTKO), it's perfectly reasonable to believe he'll stay ahead of them, so what does he really have to worry about? Old man Altior and Sick note Chacun Pour Soi? Again, an odd stick to beat him with?


Beating Melon and Samcro are odd sticks to beat him with too, and to say he doesn't jump quick enough is odd as well, in fact it's jsut plain wrong. His jumping was better average, it was noteable just how much better than Samcro he was through the air and that horse went on to win at the festival too. He may not be as fast at running or have as much stamina etc, but to say he's not quick enough through the air is not a fact.


I'm surprised so many people have agreed with you, must be being polite because you're new


Welcome to the forum I look forward to your reply
and if you go here: http://www.fatjockey.com/forum/showt...equests/page34 I can sort you a profile picture out

[nortonscoin200]

I'd be more surprised to see Fakir in the Champion Chase than the Gold Cup. But agree the Ryanair is his most likely target.

It's easy to forget he's still only 5 so the hype horse allegation is a tad harsh.

If he were mine I'd aim him at next year's Gold Cup because I reckon that'll be his best trip.

[taylorch1990]

I think you've made some good points there Dessie. I agree he's had enough chances at 2 miles now to say that he isn't quite quick enough to be grade 1 class at the trip I expect him to go ryanair this year with the gold Cup being the aim the year after. Mcmanus does seem to have a few that would be best at the ryanair trip with le richeboug defi and fakir this season so I do expect one of them to go the Champion Chase route if they all make the festival.

[Kevloaf]

I think you've made some good points there Dessie. I agree he's had enough chances at 2 miles now to say that he isn't quite quick enough to be grade 1 class at the trip I expect him to go ryanair this year with the gold Cup being the aim the year after. Mcmanus does seem to have a few that would be best at the ryanair trip with le richeboug defi and fakir this season so I do expect one of them to go the Champion Chase route if they all make the festival.

Was Dodging Bullets good enough at this stage of his career? Was Politilogue? Or Special Tiara?

Writing him off as a two miler is a bit premature, plenty of not 'top class' horses win the QMCC!!!

Fakir isn't that bad, and the division is bad.

I'd be more surprised to see Fakir in the Champion Chase than the Gold Cup. But agree the Ryanair is his most likely target.

It's easy to forget he's still only 5 so the hype horse allegation is a tad harsh.

If he were mine I'd aim him at next year's Gold Cup because I reckon that'll be his best trip.

His best trip will be 3m2f at 6 years old?

I assure you it will not, good job you don't own him

[Dessie the great]

To address your points:

He is a hype horse in my opinion as he has run in 7 G1s,some of them very weak for the grade and has won once, when his only realistic rival fell at the 2nd last when going slightly better. He has been talked up for all these G1 races by the public and particularly by pundits such as Kevin Blake.

He has been built up by quite a few on here and indeed on the tv as being a serious contender for the QMCC. I may be wrong but I couldnt have him for that, he wont beat PTKO over course and distance unless something goes amiss with her and we dont know if she is even good enough to challenge for it.

End up in a hcap? Surely not.

I dont think he was ahead of the rest of the novices last season. Notebook clearly doesnt act around Cheltenham and beat him convincingly at Christmas, outjumping him all the way.

After his win in the Drinmore twitter was full of people talking about him as one of the best jumping novices of all time. He was comprehensively outjumped by Notebook at Christmas and it was the mares jumping that beat him in the arkle. It is a fact that she was quicker through the air at the 2nd where Fakir lost his position front rack, quicker at the 3rd last which enabled the mare to grab the rail at the home turn and when the pressure was really on the mare produced the big jump at the 2nd last while Fakir put down and bundled through it. He is a fine safe jumper but nowhere near as good as people were making out. It was easy look good beside a grand national winner over 2m4 and samcro who seemed to lack confidence on the day.

I wasnt beating him with a samcro or melon stick. Samcro prob would have beaten him in the drinmore although we will never know and melon is at least a stone better around cheltenham in March than Navan in the autumn.

Maybe not the most overhyped horse of all time but there are plenty who have achieved a lot more on the track than Fakir and dont get half the coverage or are not talked up for races as much. That is all

[Dessie the great]

He has won a G1 over 2m 4f as a 4 yr old. Of course he could run over 3m plus as a six yr old