Related Doubles (ideas)

[Rooster Booster]

Not having an issue with ground is not necessarily the same as it being her optimum. I have heard Willie say countless times that a horse will improve for better ground and I am not aware that he has said this with her. If the ground is a little quicker i believe there are some it is likely to benefit more than it will benefit her so any gap just narrows a little. Also if the race is fairly tactical which looking at the potential line up I can see being more likely than unlikely it may help the speedier types a little more than it helps her. Everything is relative. It’s not like she has a stone in hand so small margins here can make the difference. Clearly opposing a Willie favourite is not going to go unchallenged but I am happy to back a few that I feel could have conditions of the race a little more in their favour at nice enough prices. I am not stupid however and fully accept that irrespective of race conditions she could prove to be the best horse in the race.

[Quevega]

Fuck the ground.
The best horses go well on anything within the extremes.
The advantage the Irish horses often have is they are tougher and more resolute in addition to the natural ability - after often having ran against better horses on worse ground.
We might get the odd result, but that will only happen if they go no gallop. IMO.

[Carnage at Taunton]

She is a doctor dino

And the majority of his better progeny go on or prefer better ground

But she’s yet to show if she prefers better ground, so jury is out on that.

[Rooster Booster]

Fuck the ground.
The best horses go well on anything within the extremes.
The advantage the Irish horses often have is they are tougher and more resolute in addition to the natural ability - after often having ran against better horses on worse ground.
We might get the odd result, but that will only happen if they go no gallop. IMO.

Fuck the ground? Why be so extreme ? nobody is saying any horse won’t ’go well on anything’ . It can be small margins that turn a few pounds ahead in the ratings to very close and then you are making a decision on value and other factors like pace of the race etc. the best horse and highest rated horse loses frequently because on the day a horse rated a few pound lower had things more in their favour. Next time I will acknowledge she is Irish will act on the ground is a few pounds ahead and therefore wins. End of thread or at least it would be if it was the mares thread

[Carnage at Taunton]

She’s won on good to soft on the flat in France. I know the old course is a sharper track but it’s still got undulations and is more stamina zapping with the steeper incline finish than the majority of the Irish courses. Townsend knows the horse better now and id say he’ll take up the running early enough if he has to. Over 2 and a half miles I’m not concerned at all about the track being too sharp for her.

Not saying she won’t win, but enough in the form book that suggest others could do her on better than soft ground, and that she’s worth taking on.

[ComplyOrDie]

Fuck the ground.

The Quevega bingo card has landed, finally I wondered how long before you piped up about the ground haha!

The best horses go well on anything within the extremes.

The best horses aren't likely to come here though, they are going to the Champion Hurdle So ground may well be a factor.

[Studfarm254]

Not saying she won’t win, but enough in the form book that suggest others could do her on better than soft ground, and that she’s worth taking on.

Yep happy to agree to disagree lol

[Rooster Booster]

The Quevega bingo card has landed, finally I wondered how long before you piped up about the ground haha!



The best horses aren't likely to come here though, they are going to the Champion Hurdle So ground may well be a factor.

Was going to say that too but figured he already knows that and is obviously just in a grumpy mood (no judgement here btw has been me for 2/3 days now )

[Quevega]

i

Fuck the ground? Why be so extreme ? nobody is saying any horse won’t ’go well on anything’ . It can be small margins that turn a few pounds ahead in the ratings to very close and then you are making a decision on value and other factors like pace of the race etc. the best horse and highest rated horse loses frequently because on the day a horse rated a few pound lower had things more in their favour. Next time I will acknowledge she is Irish will act on the ground is a few pounds ahead and therefore wins. End of thread or at least it would be if it was the mares thread

Just my opinion.
I agree that there are lots of factors at play and are worthy of thinking about when making personal choices of when or when not to back.
But good horses go on any ground, and I will never sway from that opinion, especially all those in between Good & Heavy.

It will of course be a factor in the result and so will the pace of the race etc etc.
Mostly all of these are out of a punters control though.

Apart from whether to back or not.

So the point is - I would not let the ground factor stop me backing most horses in training (very few would have me hesitating).

Anyone who blames the ground or almost any other factor for a higher rated horses defeat is guessing anyway (educated guesses sometimes, sometimes not)

I wasn't bigging up JDG either, as my bigger bet is on Henry's mare.

Think she might need it soft

[DenmanSacre]

Just look at last year with Lark in the Mornin and Absurde winning on heavy when connections were adamant they needed good ground. Unless it's a road or Haydock heavy, I don't pay too much attention to ground.

[Quevega]

Was going to say that too but figured he already knows that and is obviously just in a grumpy mood (no judgement here btw has been me for 2/3 days now )

Apologies
Not grumpy at all today.
Just multi tasking and didn't show you the respect to read all of your post. Which was perfectly fine and rational.

I was just blurting out a general opinion I hold, which I've clearly got a reputation for
Been holding it back.

Multi tasking involves eating cheese and crackers, chatting on here and arranging my annual indemnity insurance.

[Quevega]

Just look at last year with Lark in the Mornin and Absurde winning on heavy when connections were adamant they needed good ground. Unless it's a road or Haydock heavy, I don't pay too much attention to ground.

Another genius.
Was fortunate to be on both of those.
I learnt my lesson the year Mohaayed won the county and Skelton's bullshit put me off, so I cashed the 33-1 ticket I had.

Fuck the ground indeed.
Vast majority of ground theories are the result of past trainer comments and this often creates a mythical reality, when in actual fact, it's just fucking soil with grass on it.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Just look at last year with Lark in the Mornin and Absurde winning on heavy when connections were adamant they needed good ground. Unless it's a road or Haydock heavy, I don't pay too much attention to ground.

I do, if think it’s important to look at the form on different types of ground.
Some are not that dependent on the ground, but in my experience the ground can completely go against some horses chances.

[DenmanSacre]

I do, if think it’s important to look at the form on different types of ground.
Some are not that dependent on the ground, but in my experience the ground can completely go against some horses chances.

Which horses in particular do you think the ground caused them to run considerably below par in the last year or so at the Festival?

I've put above what seemed to be the two most ground dependent horses with big chances last year and they both pissed in on ground they supposedly hate. They drifted from their ante post price, drifted on the day and the ground proved no bother.

As I said, unless it's a road (will never happen) or heavy ground like Haydock can be (again I don't think Cheltenham would ever get like that and Haydock heavy does suit some horses in particualr) it's one more variable to worry about that would be low down my list of things to consider for Cheltenham.

[Rooster Booster]

Apologies
Not grumpy at all today.
Just multi tasking and didn't show you the respect to read all of your post. Which was perfectly fine and rational.

I was just blurting out a general opinion I hold, which I've clearly got a reputation for
Been holding it back.

Multi tasking involves eating cheese and crackers, chatting on here and arranging my annual indemnity insurance.

No apology needed at all Fascinating combination of tasks. I’d prioritise the cheese and crackers personally.