May Forum Yankee for 2021

[Outlaw]

Envoy youv'e just put pretty much said what i was about too there is very little between them in terms of value exactly for the reasons touched on one can go off shorter but one is nailed on for a set race. Regarding Shishkin best trip he may well keep to 2m all next season but in my opinion if he's to be a top horse i envisage it over further has plenty of attributes the lad does.

[Middle_Of_March]

Goshen isn’t a banker and BDD could run anywhere.
I’d go for
Shishkin
Envoi Allen
Easysland
Al boum photo or honeysuckle

I ought to say that the reason Goshen was in there was because he was 6/1 and I’ve included the horses at that price and shorter

[Middle_Of_March]

Worth saying whilst the discussion is hot (4 pages on the first day of May is top degeneracy lads well played) that I personally would go for Envoi, Shishkin, Epatante and Easysland as my four if I was voting right now. But that’s just my opinion. The Yankee will of course be the four that are generally most popular for this.

[The Don]

Worth saying whilst the discussion is hot (4 pages on the first day of May is top degeneracy lads well played) that I personally would go for Envoi, Shishkin, Epatante and Easysland as my four if I was voting right now. But that’s just my opinion. The Yankee will of course be the four that are generally most popular for this.

These would be my 4 too.

[Kevloaf]

If the targets are right there is a chance a few of these could be odds on...


Easysland may not be if Tiger Roll runs (but should be)

Shishkin and Envoi Allen are tough.... as the premise for a horse going off odds on is that they've scared away some of the opposition. The problem is, some VERY good horses are going to have to clash with these, as you can't force them all up to 3m (in what also lkooks a hot division)....

I therefore (despite being quick to put up I think Shishkin could mirror Altior), is it safer to go with the likes of Al Boum Photo or Epatante?


As a dual Gold Cup winner ABP probably should be shorter than he is. Or Epatante should be the same price as ABP. Both have the new set of novices going into their respective open companies but I don't see Allaho, Champ and Minella Indo as big a threat as Goshen and Abacadaras?
There are also more dangers with novice chasers, a horse like Klassical Dream could put in a great chase debut and them BAM, straight away you have a horse that'd be a match for Shishkin or Envoi Allen potentially?



For me, Epatate and Al Boum Photo should be in this, as should Easysland. You could knock Easysland out now based on being 7/4 not being worth it......



I'll be disappointed if dual Gold Cup winner Al Boum Photo (who is the BIGGEST PRICE of the 5 shortlisted) doesn't make the top 4... as he could easily be the shortest SP!



I might just have the super yankee

[Kautostar]

Why not just do
Epatante
Shishkin
Envoi Allen
Easysland
Al boum photo
Trebles, 4folds and acca = 16 bets instead of the Yankee. The doubles don’t pay anything anyway so it’s pointless doing a Yankee with these unless you’re increasing stakes

[EnvoyAllen]

If the targets are right there is a chance a few of these could be odds on...


Easysland may not be if Tiger Roll runs (but should be)

Shishkin and Envoi Allen are tough.... as the premise for a horse going off odds on is that they've scared away some of the opposition. The problem is, some VERY good horses are going to have to clash with these, as you can't force them all up to 3m (in what also lkooks a hot division)....

I therefore (despite being quick to put up I think Shishkin could mirror Altior), is it safer to go with the likes of Al Boum Photo or Epatante?


As a dual Gold Cup winner ABP probably should be shorter than he is. Or Epatante should be the same price as ABP. Both have the new set of novices going into their respective open companies but I don't see Allaho, Champ and Minella Indo as big a threat as Goshen and Abacadaras?
There are also more dangers with novice chasers, a horse like Klassical Dream could put in a great chase debut and them BAM, straight away you have a horse that'd be a match for Shishkin or Envoi Allen potentially?



For me, Epatate and Al Boum Photo should be in this, as should Easysland. You could knock Easysland out now based on being 7/4 not being worth it......



I'll be disappointed if dual Gold Cup winner Al Boum Photo (who is the BIGGEST PRICE of the 5 shortlisted) doesn't make the top 4... as he could easily be the shortest SP!



I might just have the super yankee

Mr Kevloaf Sir, I really enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions on here - always sound knowledge, but I’m interested to learn of who (at this immediate stage, always a few who bolt up around Christmas time.....) these ‘very good horses’ are that Shishkin and Envoi Allen might come up against next season over the minimum and intermediate distance, and with a good degree of probability, the Arkle and Marsh Chases?

The Arkle tends to be a weak race and without writing horses names down here as I have the betting in front of me, the 2nd and 3rd faves are unlikely to run here which moves us on to Capt Guinness (an intriguing one) and then a list of horses that really don’t appeal as superstars in the making?

Similarly with the betting for the Marsh as it stands currently, below Envoi who tops it, at least half of those horses in the next 6 won’t even run here (Thyme Hill, Monkfish 2 reasonably good examples...) and if Easywork and the Big Getaway couldn’t give him anything to worry about in a Ballymore (and they didn’t) - why would they be the ‘very good horses’ you might potentially be suggesting next March. Chantry House maybe?? He wouldn’t get near Envoi Allen over any distance, surely.

So if I may kindly ask, what horses do you personally think will give Shishkin (in what could be a weak Arkle) and Envoi Allen (possibly they best horse in training and most impressive winner bar Ferny Hollow at the festival) a really, really good fun for their money??

There’s always one, of course, but as I look at the markets now, and assess how they might look in 10 months time, I’m struggling to see serious adversaries to them?

[Priceiskey]

I see Captain G main threat to Shiskin and Chanty House biggest threat to Envoi as well, with Elixir a potential danger also as could see him ending up in either of those races.

[archie]

160 Klassical Dream
159 Darver Star
159 Cornerstone Lad
155 Quel Destin
152 Felix Desjy

[YoungHustler]

Strike a line through Sporting John's run in the Ballymore. I'll be very interested in how he jumps a fence.

[YoungHustler]

Would Paisley Park be worth a risk for the Yankee?

[Istabraq]

Would Paisley Park be worth a risk for the Yankee?

Very low risk pick on the basis there's a known target but didn’t this one creep into the March yankee ?
I’m a Thyme Hill fan at a bigger price but Paisley Park not a terrible selection...

[Kevloaf]

Mr Kevloaf Sir, I really enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions on here - always sound knowledge, but I’m interested to learn of who (at this immediate stage, always a few who bolt up around Christmas time.....) these ‘very good horses’ are that Shishkin and Envoi Allen might come up against next season over the minimum and intermediate distance, and with a good degree of probability, the Arkle and Marsh Chases?

The Arkle tends to be a weak race and without writing horses names down here as I have the betting in front of me, the 2nd and 3rd faves are unlikely to run here which moves us on to Capt Guinness (an intriguing one) and then a list of horses that really don’t appeal as superstars in the making?

Similarly with the betting for the Marsh as it stands currently, below Envoi who tops it, at least half of those horses in the next 6 won’t even run here (Thyme Hill, Monkfish 2 reasonably good examples...) and if Easywork and the Big Getaway couldn’t give him anything to worry about in a Ballymore (and they didn’t) - why would they be the ‘very good horses’ you might potentially be suggesting next March. Chantry House maybe?? He wouldn’t get near Envoi Allen over any distance, surely.

So if I may kindly ask, what horses do you personally think will give Shishkin (in what could be a weak Arkle) and Envoi Allen (possibly they best horse in training and most impressive winner bar Ferny Hollow at the festival) a really, really good fun for their money??

There’s always one, of course, but as I look at the markets now, and assess how they might look in 10 months time, I’m struggling to see serious adversaries to them?

Just because you/I/we can't see a horse now doesn't mean it makes the short priced favourite a good price.

The best example would be when Sprinter Sacre was beaten in the Supreme? It'd have been impossible to think he'd be the superstar he was based on that. Plenty of people though, would have been excited about him going chasing and he improved markedly on his hurdles form. This is an extreme example but there are hundreds of horses that improve for going chasing.

I don't know exactly which horses will improve for chasing, and I don't know that Shishkin will or won't. There are so many examples though of horses improving at different rates that it'd be foolish to assume the favourite with 10 months to go, always goes off favourite. In fact I know that not to be the case.


Horses like Pic D'Orhy, Captain Guinness, Klassical Dream, Andy Dufresne, Saint Roi, Chantry House, Pentland Hills, Solo, Abacadabras, Darver Star? If they all progress at the same or a simil;ar rate, then Shishkin should be better than them, but it's an unknown.

Another example would have been Footpad - virtually impossible? Neon Wolf, Willoughby Court, Melon and Labaik were probably favourites for the novices chases at the time... Footpad wouldn't have been on anyones mind.






I hope Shishkin and Envoi Allen both excel over fences and go on to be superstars... but I hope that any horse goes on to be a superstar.

I'm having to justify why backing novice chasers that haven't jumped a fence yet at single figures is a bad idea... ... relative to the dual Gold Cup winner at a bigger price?

[Kevloaf]

Would Paisley Park be worth a risk for the Yankee?

Could be considered.

Was in last months, and was beaten this time so easier to argue he's not a banker...

but I think he's a better bet than some of the others.

[archie]

I'd have thought that Min should be part of this conversation.