Cheltenham 2021 - Ante Post Bets

[Rhinestone_Cowboy]

From what I’ve seen RC a horse is rarely dropped for being off the track.
For TOTG his rating is almost irrelevant, if he’s expected to be a credible Gold Cup horse he should shoulder top weight and win, and the race isn’t what it used to be, last years renewal was certainly poor and not sure much (bar The Conditional) came from the race to win much later in the season...

Thanks Ista, I wasn’t aware a ratings drop was even a possibility until I tried finding out what his latest mark actually was. I guess if the horse has been off a couple of seasons or more a drop might be a little more likely and justified

[Eggs]

....notice Diol Ker in the Hills any race market @ 14-1. Bit disappointed with that.

[BigChaang]

Sad news about dynamite dollars today..

That's Terrible news , R.I.P Dynamite .

[The Don]

GE has said he sees Envoi Allen as a gold cup horse... given Santini and Delta Work going from the RSA to run big races in the GC surely that’s the route for EA?

EA would win either he’s that good - so assuming it’s not bottomless ground surely it’s the Delta Work route?

[Kevloaf]

GE has said he sees Envoi Allen as a gold cup horse... given Santini and Delta Work going from the RSA to run big races in the GC surely that’s the route for EA?

EA would win either he’s that good - so assuming it’s not bottomless ground surely it’s the Delta Work route?

Bit of bias using Santini in that statement? The RSA is traditionally more of a trial for the Gold Cup (which is obvious). Plenty of Arkle winners have won a Gold Cup though too? I don't see why the Marsh wouldn't or couldn't end up producing future Gold Cup winners as well.

I anticipate he'll be in the Flogas over 2m6f during the season... which also won't give us an answer



He's also nothing like Delta Work in his career so far? I think you need to zoom out a bit from just the last season.

[Priceiskey]

GE has said he sees Envoi Allen as a gold cup horse... given Santini and Delta Work going from the RSA to run big races in the GC surely that’s the route for EA?


EA would win either he’s that good - so assuming it’s not bottomless ground surely it’s the Delta Work route?

He’s completely different to those two in that he’s much speedier. Those two are galloping thorough stayers, who wouldn’t have the toe to win a grade 1 at 2m or a Ballymore. He’s more in the mould of a Kauto Star, Sizing John in that he has speed and stamina, so they could quite easily campaign him at 20f next season. Kauto, Cue Card and Sizing John all had their novice season over the minimum trips which worked brilliantly and the likes of Sire Des Champs and Lostintranslation who both ran big races in the Gold Cup where prepped over 20f. I personally think Envoi fits the mould of those horses and can take the Marsh route before stepping up to the Gold Cup the following season with the King George the target along the way.

[Willdunn99]

GE has said he sees Envoi Allen as a gold cup horse... given Santini and Delta Work going from the RSA to run big races in the GC surely that’s the route for EA?

EA would win either he’s that good - so assuming it’s not bottomless ground surely it’s the Delta Work route?

They also said that Samcro was a gold cup horse not so long ago, and he went and won the Marsh.

It’s also right to point out Lostintranslation and reel steal both went the Marsh to Gold cup route.

[The Don]

All very valid points, thanks chaps

[The King Pimm]

Don Cossack came 3rd in the Ryanair? Same race Uxaindre won with McCoy on board.

[Kevloaf]

Don Cossack came 3rd in the Ryanair? Same race Uxaindre won with McCoy on board.

Yep

[Middle_Of_March]

I do think the Marsh is an ideal stepping stone for him from starting this season in 2 miles hurdles to ending next season over 2m 4f over a fence. That’s a good bit of progress before his likely gold cup attempting season the year after.

HOWEVER.. I can’t get the quote out of my head from Elliott when he was asked about Envoi’s target next year at Cheltenham that was something along the lines of ‘we’ve not made a plan for Envoi yet over fences for which race at Cheltenham but all I’ll say is he was bought to be a 3m chaser’. Is that a hint at the RSA?

[OscarWhisky]

I do think the Marsh is an ideal stepping stone for him from starting this season in 2 miles hurdles to ending next season over 2m 4f over a fence. That’s a good bit of progress before his likely gold cup attempting season the year after.

HOWEVER.. I can’t get the quote out of my head from Elliott when he was asked about Envoi’s target next year at Cheltenham that was something along the lines of ‘we’ve not made a plan for Envoi yet over fences for which race at Cheltenham but all I’ll say is he was bought to be a 3m chaser’. Is that a hint at the RSA?

Bought to be a 3m chaser but that doesn’t mean he needs to be exactly that right from the off in his novice season.

I think Priceiskey is spot on....

[Parachute Paddy]

Gordon always says he’ll go for the race he thinks they have the best chance in winning. You’d have to think the marsh would be the plan at this stage. Not that it matters but worth pointing out that Gordon has never won the RSA..

I’d also echo everything Priceiskey said.

[billymag]

Think Fury Road will play a bit of a part in the thinking of where to run EA. If he turns out to have a live chance in the RSA then youd imagine that EA will naturally fit into the Marsh (or Arkle to a lesser extend where they would likely meet Shishkin)

[Rhinestone_Cowboy]

I do think the Marsh is the obvious early target and will likely back him for this race next week. That said Archie’s point about what happened with Alloha this season is worth noting. Obviously very different horses but if you think Willie (and those round him) would have much preferred to run him an open looking Marsh then it looks like the owners pulled rank due to their preference for running at the longer distance. That’s the only concern I have about the target and is why I would like cash out available