Cheltenham 2021 - Ante Post Bets

[ComplyOrDie]

We were spoilt having Altior, Douvan & Un De Sceaux in three consecutive years, but I believe the Arkle to have been of really poor standard the past 3 seasons.

I'll honestly be surprised if PTKO turns out good enough, that also said, I do believe the 2m chase division is incredibly poor anyway. Altior has been in his own league for a while. Min was the next best, and he couldn't lay a glove on him (much to my disappointment). The rest are just picking up pieces left behind when Altior is injured.

Hard to comment on Chacun Pour Soi as of yet. His defeat of Min over 2m is not saying much, as Min should have been up in trip the previous season anyway, such was the case that WPM admitted this himself.

[Lobos]

We were spoilt having Altior, Douvan & Un De Sceaux in three consecutive years, but I believe the Arkle to have been of really poor standard the past 3 seasons.

I'll honestly be surprised if PTKO turns out good enough, that also said, I do believe the 2m chase division is incredibly poor anyway. Altior has been in his own league for a while. Min was the next best, and he couldn't lay a glove on him (much to my disappointment). The rest are just picking up pieces left behind when Altior is injured.

Hard to comment on Chacun Pour Soi as of yet. His defeat of Min over 2m is not saying much, as Min should have been up in trip the previous season anyway, such was the case that WPM admitted this himself.

I'm in the PTKO camp. Not having this poor Arkle chat with no substance (yet) to back it up. Sizing Europe so say won one of the poorest Arkles and look what he did in the Champion Chase. PTKO actually puts me in mind of SE in the way they race/jump . SE stayed beyond 2 miles as does PTKO which will help her in any battle over the shorter distance. She has a bit to find with Altior and Chancun but has both age and reliability on her side. She also has without doubt one of the best trainers in charge of her in respect of 2 mile chasers. I think she will surprise plenty on here

[ComplyOrDie]

I'm in the PTKO camp. Not having this poor Arkle chat with no substance (yet) to back it up. Sizing Europe so say won one of the poorest Arkles and look what he did in the Champion Chase. PTKO actually puts me in mind of SE in the way they race/jump . SE stayed beyond 2 miles as does PTKO which will help her in any battle over the shorter distance. She has a bit to find with Altior and Chancun but has both age and reliability on her side. She also has without doubt one of the best trainers in charge of her in respect of 2 mile chasers. I think she will surprise plenty on here

You don't have to 'have it' this is an opinion, which is why I said "I believe".

Fair play if you and others on here turn out to be right about PTKO, I'll certainly congratulate you like I have done previously when I've been wrong, but right now, at this moment in time, I'd struggle to believe her or Fakir could land a serious blow in the QMCC (and I've backed Fakir at 28/1 E/W ).

I'd be more hopefully of her going well in the Mares Chase though

[jonthehammer]

I am a PTKO fan as well, I have the 20s in the book (nothing else as yet) and maybe it will be down to who turns up on the day but quite happy with that situation for that race. If Altior and CPS don't show which is very plausible she could end up being 4 or 5/1 on the day with a good build up. Guess we will just wait and see and it will be fun watching that.

[charlie]

I'm in the PTKO camp. Not having this poor Arkle chat with no substance (yet) to back it up. Sizing Europe so say won one of the poorest Arkles and look what he did in the Champion Chase. PTKO actually puts me in mind of SE in the way they race/jump . SE stayed beyond 2 miles as does PTKO which will help her in any battle over the shorter distance. She has a bit to find with Altior and Chancun but has both age and reliability on her side. She also has without doubt one of the best trainers in charge of her in respect of 2 mile chasers. I think she will surprise plenty on here

Ante post betting at this time of year is about forming opinions in the absence of evidence and/or substance, so I find this statement a bit odd. You are basically saying that any ante post opinion is null and void in the absence of substance to confirm or deny that opinion.

[Dessie the great]

Ante post betting at this time of year is about forming opinions in the absence of evidence and/or substance, so I find this statement a bit odd. You are basically saying that any ante post opinion is null and void in the absence of substance to confirm or deny that opinion.

I have yet to hear any reasoning that stands up to basic scrutany as to why people say the arkle was a poor race?? Maybe you could add some??

It may well turn out to be a poor race... although Al Dancer won yesterday over an extended trip, certainly doesnt knock the form of the arkle considering he was beat out of sight in it

[Lobos]

Ante post betting at this time of year is about forming opinions in the absence of evidence and/or substance, so I find this statement a bit odd. You are basically saying that any ante post opinion is null and void in the absence of substance to confirm or deny that opinion.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying........not ! Lol !

[charlie]

I have yet to hear any reasoning that stands up to basic scrutany as to why people say the arkle was a poor race?? Maybe you could add some??

It may well turn out to be a poor race... although Al Dancer won yesterday over an extended trip, certainly doesnt knock the form of the arkle considering he was beat out of sight in it

I didn't say it was a poor race.
I said it was a slowly run Arkle, which it was.
That some of the market principles underperformed, which they did.
That Fakir wants further, which according to his trainer, he does.

[Lobos]

I am a PTKO fan as well, I have the 20s in the book (nothing else as yet) and maybe it will be down to who turns up on the day but quite happy with that situation for that race. If Altior and CPS don't show which is very plausible she could end up being 4 or 5/1 on the day with a good build up. Guess we will just wait and see and it will be fun watching that.

If Altior and Chancun don't show and DDS goes Ryanair, she will be fav.........that's if all goes to plan and she turns up as well !! Lol !

[Quevega]

The news that both Elliot's stable jockeys are out for weeks can't be good.

Broken Neck (vertebrae) - Russell
Broken Collarbone - Kennedy

Who's going to ride his best horses, bearing in mind he normally runs at least 2 per race ?

[Quevega]

Donoghue & Mckenna ?

[Lobos]

The news that both Elliot's stable jockeys are out for weeks can't be good.

Broken Neck (vertebrae) - Russell
Broken Collarbone - Kennedy

Who's going to ride his best horses, bearing in mind he normally runs at least 2 per race ?

Bloody hell!! Not good.

[Quevega]

Bloody hell!! Not good.

Probably minimum 2 months for each I reckon.

[ComplyOrDie]

I have yet to hear any reasoning that stands up to basic scrutany as to why people say the arkle was a poor race?? Maybe you could add some??

It may well turn out to be a poor race... although Al Dancer won yesterday over an extended trip, certainly doesnt knock the form of the arkle considering he was beat out of sight in it

As I stated last season (I think in the Arkle thread), about Al Dancer & Getaway Trump, both would be suited over further, and clearly Al Dancer showed that on seasonal debut at the weekend. I wouldn't use Al Dancer being beat out of sight in the Arkle as a reason for the Arkle to not be poor, as he also got within 2 1/2 lengths of PTKO at the November meeting and Rouge Vif only 8 1/2 lengths away.

Notebook gave Fakir a beating at Leopardstown and also gave him 7lbs that day, so in my mind there is absolutely no chance Notebook ran his race in the Arkle, had he done so I think he would have won, collateral form would have him ahead, IMO. The only horse who actually raced with PTKO was Fakir, a horse who was beat previously by Notebook, as just noted and who was also somewhat fortuitous to have won the time before (at Fairyhouse) as well, due to Samcro falling when cruising up alongside.

It is all 'ifs and buts' of course, but in my opinion she's beat a favourite who didn't run his race then a bunch of very average horses (over 2m, we still may see improvement from a few when out in trip), which to me makes it a poor renewal of the race.

I can't prove this, it is all based on opinions of the horses that run in the race, and until they are all out in open company we won't actually be any nearer to proving any of us right on here. So we will have to sit and wait.

[ComplyOrDie]

The news that both Elliot's stable jockeys are out for weeks can't be good.

Broken Neck (vertebrae) - Russell
Broken Collarbone - Kennedy

Who's going to ride his best horses, bearing in mind he normally runs at least 2 per race ?

Nasty news that.

Best recoveries to both.