2022 Gold Cup

[Kevloaf]

The way both horses performed at the festival i would say CH would have won the RSA, especially as he is proving a better horse at the longer distance.
The point to point reference that Spectre made don’t exactly put CH being well beat by M.

Using point to point form literally is in my opinion pretty irrelevant.

I stopped myself saying that on the video. It's like backing the horse that Samcro was nearly beaten by and over betting him.


Monkfish underperforming and still winning by 6L for me is much better than Chantry House winning his race by 3L but I also think Monkfish would have won the Marsh, which I'm sure you don't.



Irrelevant really, but what odds was Monkfish before being ruled out?

[Dandrew99]

Irrelevant really, but what odds was Monkfish before being ruled out?

Best priced 6/1, as short as 9/2 in places

[Carnage at Taunton]

Using point to point form literally is in my opinion pretty irrelevant.

I stopped myself saying that on the video. It's like backing the horse that Samcro was nearly beaten by and over betting him.


Monkfish underperforming and still winning by 6L for me is much better than Chantry House winning his race by 3L but I also think Monkfish would have won the Marsh, which I'm sure you don't.



Irrelevant really, but what odds was Monkfish before being ruled out?

I was not using the ptp literally, just mentioned it as part of my reasoning.
I think CH winning a race that imo was short of his best distance is to be looked at as a good achievement. Monkfish at his best may well have won the Marsh, and would have won the RSA with or without CH, but he weren’t at his best.
Monkfish price, not sure but he was fav at some point I believe?

[Rooster Booster]

Using point to point form literally is in my opinion pretty irrelevant.

I stopped myself saying that on the video. It's like backing the horse that Samcro was nearly beaten by and over betting him.


Monkfish underperforming and still winning by 6L for me is much better than Chantry House winning his race by 3L but I also think Monkfish would have won the Marsh, which I'm sure you don't.



Irrelevant really, but what odds was Monkfish before being ruled out?

I agree that CH wasn’t ultra impressive winning the Marsh but I am strongly of the opinion that that’s because he already needed 3 miles. Imo the trainer is quite easy on his novices and kept alluding to the fact that he would step up in trip at some point but you kind of got the sense that it wouldn’t be until aintree no matter what. He got lucky in the end and ended up winning a good prize while also minding his horse. Not a bad outcome imo with regard to maximising the horses future and as such I don’t think he is the kind of horse to take too literal a view when using the past to predict the future.

[Kevloaf]

I was not using the ptp literally, just mentioned it as part of my reasoning.
I think CH winning a race that imo was short of his best distance is to be looked at as a good achievement. Monkfish at his best may well have won the Marsh, and would have won the RSA with or without CH, but he weren’t at his best.
Monkfish price, not sure but he was fav at some point I believe?

Even mentioning the point to points though for me is a bit of a clutch at straws in terms of really relevancy by the time we're talking about being open chasers. That's a different point though so fair enough.

It is a good achievement, it's just not an achievement that'd have me excited. Fusil Raffles would be an also-ran in a Ryanair, and of the horses further back, I don't believe they ran to their best so if they've gone on to do better, that's great, but doesn't mean we can take it literally.

I think Chantry House would have had to improve so much for 3m to reach Monkfish's level, and that level may not be good enough to win a Gold Cup still.


Monkfish being 6/1 isn't a price I'd have taken, and I assume CH was also much bigger at the time, but would you really have Chantry House as a more likely winner of the Gold Cup than Monkfish, if Monkfish hadn't been injured? You'd have to really believe he'd have won the "RSA", and I just don't... I would have seen him as an also-ran in that.... if Monkfish had been on song, I don't think Chantry House would have been within 6L of him... over any distance.


So with regards to the Gold Cup, he just has way too much to find to get to the level of the 'missing' challenger, and that may not have been good enough to place. FWIW I would very much have fancied Monkfish this season... not at 6/1 mind you, but I'd have been trying to work him in somehow.

[Kevloaf]

I agree that CH wasn’t ultra impressive winning the Marsh but I am strongly of the opinion that that’s because he already needed 3 miles. Imo the trainer is quite easy on his novices and kept alluding to the fact that he would step up in trip at some point but you kind of got the sense that it wouldn’t be until aintree no matter what. He got lucky in the end and ended up winning a good prize while also minding his horse. Not a bad outcome imo with regard to maximising the horses future and as such I don’t think he is the kind of horse to take too literal a view when using the past to predict the future.

Aintree Bowl 2022 winner... Chantry House.

As the Irish horses won't be there....

[Rooster Booster]

Even mentioning the point to points though for me is a bit of a clutch at straws in terms of really relevancy by the time we're talking about being open chasers. That's a different point though so fair enough.

It is a good achievement, it's just not an achievement that'd have me excited. Fusil Raffles would be an also-ran in a Ryanair, and of the horses further back, I don't believe they ran to their best so if they've gone on to do better, that's great, but doesn't mean we can take it literally.

I think Chantry House would have had to improve so much for 3m to reach Monkfish's level, and that level may not be good enough to win a Gold Cup still.


Monkfish being 6/1 isn't a price I'd have taken, and I assume CH was also much bigger at the time, but would you really have Chantry House as a more likely winner of the Gold Cup than Monkfish, if Monkfish hadn't been injured? You'd have to really believe he'd have won the "RSA", and I just don't... I would have seen him as an also-ran in that.... if Monkfish had been on song, I don't think Chantry House would have been within 6L of him... over any distance.


So with regards to the Gold Cup, he just has way too much to find to get to the level of the 'missing' challenger, and that may not have been good enough to place. FWIW I would very much have fancied Monkfish this season... not at 6/1 mind you, but I'd have been trying to work him in somehow.

Monkfish got an rpr of170 for winning the rsa and CH 164 for winning the Marsh. That doesn’t suggest he would have had to improve ‘so much’ to have at least gone very close in the rsa.? Anyhow we aren’t getting anywhere and nobody (among the many of us expressing views) appear to be budging even a little so it looks like a stalemate all round unless somebody has a game changer of an argument lined up ....so as always the final word will lie with the horse

[Carnage at Taunton]

Even mentioning the point to points though for me is a bit of a clutch at straws in terms of really relevancy by the time we're talking about being open chasers. That's a different point though so fair enough.

It is a good achievement, it's just not an achievement that'd have me excited. Fusil Raffles would be an also-ran in a Ryanair, and of the horses further back, I don't believe they ran to their best so if they've gone on to do better, that's great, but doesn't mean we can take it literally.

I think Chantry House would have had to improve so much for 3m to reach Monkfish's level, and that level may not be good enough to win a Gold Cup still.


Monkfish being 6/1 isn't a price I'd have taken, and I assume CH was also much bigger at the time, but would you really have Chantry House as a more likely winner of the Gold Cup than Monkfish, if Monkfish hadn't been injured? You'd have to really believe he'd have won the "RSA", and I just don't... I would have seen him as an also-ran in that.... if Monkfish had been on song, I don't think Chantry House would have been within 6L of him... over any distance.


So with regards to the Gold Cup, he just has way too much to find to get to the level of the 'missing' challenger, and that may not have been good enough to place. FWIW I would very much have fancied Monkfish this season... not at 6/1 mind you, but I'd have been trying to work him in somehow.

Monkfish would have been my fancy for the Gold Cup before the RSA. Now that opinion obviously no longer exists.
CH is a horse that’s improving for a step up, how far is anyone’s guess. Can he get as far as being competitive in a Gold Cup? Don’t know. But I can see the possibility given all I know and have seen from him to date.

[Quevega]

If Monkfish had beaten Shan blue a distance with Fiddlerontheroof another distance behind at Aintree.
What would we have thought ?

To me it seems Chantry House is getting no credit for that.
He fucking hammered them, and they had all ran at Cheltenham, so no excuses.
None of the rest could finish the race.

It's possible that none of them ran their race.
But if you follow racing and take that view too often then you'll not follow it for long.

[FinalFurlong91]

If you think fiddler and Shan blue ran their race at Aintree then chantry House and espoir de romay must be the next kauto star and denman

[Saxon Warrior]

If Monkfish had beaten Shan blue a distance with Fiddlerontheroof another distance behind at Aintree.
What would we have thought ?

To me it seems Chantry House is getting no credit for that.
He fucking hammered them, and they had all ran at Cheltenham, so no excuses.
None of the rest could finish the race.

It's possible that none of them ran their race.
But if you follow racing and take that view too often then you'll not follow it for long.

You can put the Aintree race alongside the RSA as the two most solid pieces of 3M Grade 1 Novice Chase form.

Chantry House was very good at Aintree, alongside the faller Espoir de Romay who kept fresh by winning at Leicester whilst Chantry went to win the Marsh Novice Chase in a much harder race.

To win back to back Grade 1s at two different trips 22 days apart was a fantastic achievement.

He has as good a chance as any Second Season chaser in the Gold Cup.

His Cheltenham Festival form is rock solid.

On RPR’s he is the same in his 1st Gold Cup year as Al Boum was at this stage.

He is 2lb better than APT as a novice chaser, and 3lb behind APT’s best in that horses whole second season, including his Ryanair run, and beating Chacun in a Grade 1 Chase over 2M.

He is 2lb lower in his Novice Chase season c/w Minella Indo in his, and is 3lb lower than Indo was when he lined up in March’s Gold Cup.

So he has a good chance as it stands, to run well in the Gold Cup.

And IMO 12/1 is a fair price.

That is all before his KG bid, which throws the toys out of the pram again, and we reassess.

[Rooster Booster]

You can put the Aintree race alongside the RSA as the two most solid pieces of 3M Grade 1 Novice Chase form.

Chantry House was very good at Aintree, alongside the faller Espoir de Romay who kept fresh by winning at Leicester whilst Chantry went to win the Marsh Novice Chase in a much harder race.

To win back to back Grade 1s at two different trips 22 days apart was a fantastic achievement.

He has as good a chance as any Second Season chaser in the Gold Cup.

His Cheltenham Festival form is rock solid.

On RPR’s he is the same in his 1st Gold Cup year as Al Boum was at this stage.

He is 2lb better than APT as a novice chaser, and 3lb behind APT’s best in that horses whole second season, including his Ryanair run, and beating Chacun in a Grade 1 Chase over 2M.

He is 2lb lower in his Novice Chase season c/w Minella Indo in his, and is 3lb lower than Indo was when he lined up in March’s Gold Cup.

So he has a good chance as it stands, to run well in the Gold Cup.

And IMO 12/1 is a fair price.

That is all before his KG bid, which throws the toys out of the pram again, and we reassess.

Apart from that what did the Romans ever do for us

[Saxon Warrior]

Apart from that what did the Romans ever do for us

HaHaHa

“All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?”

………”Brought peace.”

Got to love Monty Python.

[Quevega]

If you think fiddler and Shan blue ran their race at Aintree then chantry House and espoir de romay must be the next kauto star and denman

I agree.
The most likely answer is somewhere in between.
Which is still good form.

Espoir fell so cannot be judged just yet.
Although his run this year was a disapointment.

[Cheltenham Novice Chase]

HaHaHa

“All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?”

………”Brought peace.”

Got to love Monty Python.

Don’t forget the aqueduct