2022 Albert Bartlett Novices Hurdle

[Rooster Booster]

Apologies for labouring the point but the following all had reputations that for me were also false dawns....getaway trump, truckin away, gallyhill and rathill...until something comes along that indicates otherwise he sires horses that don’t develop imo

[Fouroverthrutwo]

Apologies for labouring the point but the following all had reputations that for me were also false dawns....getaway trump, truckin away, gallyhill and rathill...until something comes along that indicates otherwise he sires horses that don’t develop imo

I'm with you R B. I've backed a few at The Festival and returns have been sparce to say the least.

[JackieMoon33]

I completely agree but my logic is a little more than that ..he has or has had over 40 horses rated 136+ And only a few placed horses to show for it. I doubt there are many other sires with a record that poor but maybe wrong

But would you back a horse with an unproven sire, with no decent OR progeny and never even had a festival runner before?

[Rooster Booster]

But would you back a horse with an unproven sire, with no decent OR progeny and never even had a festival runner before?

I’d be more inclined to back any horse from any sire where the data points are limited either positive or negative than I would an offspring of getaway. Every sire is unproved til they prove themselves. So until a sire proves itself a problem to me I will give it the benefit of the doubt as I did with Getaway to my cost. He for me has had lots of opportunity with good horses and failed to deliver every time. There was discussion about Duffle coat on another thread. His sire is very unfashionable I’d say but the data points are very limited and so I’m more inclined to take a chance. I tend to use pedigrees as indicative only it is very rare that I take a stance so significant as the one I take with getaway.

[JackieMoon33]

I’d be more inclined to back any horse from any sire where the data points are limited either positive or negative than I would an offspring of getaway. Every sire is unproved til they prove themselves. So until a sire proves itself a problem to me I will give it the benefit of the doubt as I did with Getaway to my cost. He for me has had lots of opportunity with good horses and failed to deliver every time. There was discussion about Duffle coat on another thread. His sire is very unfashionable I’d say but the data points are very limited and so I’m more inclined to take a chance. I tend to use pedigrees as indicative only it is very rare that I take a stance so significant as the one I take with getaway.

That’s a fair point I guess. But I’d find it strange to ignore Getaway but consider say a 15yo sire with no previous festival runners and a best progeny RPR over jumps of 130. Surely it would be a negative that the sire had yet to have a festival runner in that time as a sire but also has enough data to work with?

[JackieMoon33]

And the last question from the defence; have you backed American Mike for the bumper?

[Rooster Booster]

That’s a fair point I guess. But I’d find it strange to ignore Getaway but consider say a 15yo sire with no previous festival runners and a best progeny RPR over jumps of 130. Surely that would be a negative that the sire had yet to even have a festival runner in that time as a sire yet has enough data to work with?

If that sire had visited many well bred previously successful mares and failed to deliver a decent horse absolutely but if it was because of a dirth of opportunity I would consider it a neutral data point. The business is so fickle and fashion driven that I do not assume that a sire is a problem until it has not been able to take advantage of many good opportunities.

[Rooster Booster]

And the last question from the defence; have you backed American Mike for the bumper?

Is that for me? If so no I haven’t. Recognising my main issue with the sire is horses not developing following early promise then maybe the bumper is the race where he might get a little joy ...who knows. I know many on here have AM at juicy prices so I genuinely wish you all luck.

[Rooster Booster]

Is that for me? If so no I haven’t. Recognising my main issue with the sire is horses not developing following early promise then maybe the bumper is the race where he might get a little joy ...who knows. I know many on here have AM at juicy prices so I genuinely wish you all luck.

Just checked AM is out of Mahler....I’m confused

[JackieMoon33]

Is that for me? If so no I haven’t. Recognising my main issue with the sire is horses not developing following early promise then maybe the bumper is the race where he might get a little joy ...who knows. I know many on here have AM at juicy prices so I genuinely wish you all luck.

Yes that was for you. I was interested if Mahler was also on the same list of sires to avoid given his record. No right or wrong just seeing another side of the coin.

[Rooster Booster]

Ok I think I get it....I can’t see a festival winner there either?the only horse I can remember backing of his was ok corral for the Albert Bartlett ....finished 4th I believe.

[Rooster Booster]

[QUOTE=JackieMoon33;n332147]

Yes that was for you. I was interested if Mahler was also on the same list of sires to avoid given his record. No right or wrong just seeing another side of the coin.[/QUOTE

Personally I wouldn’t avoid him until his offspring regularly disappointed versus expectation (in Cheltenham terms) and looking at the horses he has sired today there aren’t many I’d say that really fall into that category ...maybe glen forsa but I never understood that excitement anyway. He certainly isn’t a positive but he’s not an avoid for me.

[Maxfield]

With Classic Getaway’s breeding I would guess you can assume that Cheveley Park Stud would be very aware of the winners its sire has produced, but you would also think that they don’t buy many duds in national hunt racing and there most expensive horses seem to be decent types. It’s not like flat racing where they are bought as babies or even before being born for stupid amounts of money, the horse was 5 when bought, so many people have sat on him and know the feel for a good horse, otherwise they wouldn’t have paid that amount of money for him on just a whim. We won’t know until he jumps a hurdle how good he really is, but with the people involved in this horse and the little we have seen so far, I would say he’s more than above average at this moment in time at 20/1 ante post he’s worth getting on side.

[Winging The Last]

Impressive from Ginto there

I can see the chances of Hollow Games going the Ballymore increasing significantly

[Eggs]

…Ginto into a general 12-1 for this, still 16-1 Lads.