2022 Albert Bartlett Novices Hurdle

[Splinterboy82]

Gordon runs 2 in 2m6 at DRF as expected. Minella Crooner (who I really like & fancy for both races) & Hollow Games. Willie 2 in it are Whatdeawant & Minella Cocooner - no jock bookings for Mullins pair yet..

[Madmoose]

Hopefully Grand Jury fades and they realise he isn’t a stayer, got gears and a middle distance horse for me, Hollow Games to win at Leop hopefully and be favourite for this race afterwards.

[giantcauseway]

Gordon runs 2 in 2m6 at DRF as expected. Minella Crooner (who I really like & fancy for both races) & Hollow Games. Willie 2 in it are Whatdeawant & Minella Cocooner - no jock bookings for Mullins pair yet..

Think Daragh O'Keefe is the owners' retained jockey so expect him to be on WDW and Townend on Cocooner

[Craigy14]

He's watched a different race to me. Or maybe I need to watch it again. Definitely didn't look like a step up in trip was the way forward. And I'd that's that they took from it I can't see him ever coming back in trip!

You’re not alone, he was outstayed completely no other reason for it imo. Ginto puts 4 and a half lengths between them to the line, don’t understand how an extra 3 furlongs will help Grand Jury at all.

[Splinterboy82]

You’re not alone, he was outstayed completely no other reason for it imo. Ginto puts 4 and a half lengths between them to the line, don’t understand how an extra 3 furlongs will help Grand Jury at all.

Maybe it’s one of those pushed by the owner. They believe JWM is their Ballymore horse, Gerri Colombe for this so a none staying 5th or worse in this makes it harder for the uk handicapper to give a terrible mark. Then run back over Ballymore C&D in Coral Cup off 140 or something….that’s how I’d be thinking…

[Quevega]

You’re not alone, he was outstayed completely no other reason for it imo. Ginto puts 4 and a half lengths between them to the line, don’t understand how an extra 3 furlongs will help Grand Jury at all.

I agree also.
Watching that race both GJ & Whatdeawant are both travelling well enough and Ginto is off the bridle first.
They loom up at the second last, they were almost upsides, maybe a length or so down in between the final two flights.
And he simply outstayed them, especially on that ground.
Both looked like they might benefit from better ground, although to be fair if hollow Games is the guide he did maintain his lead over that one. He Don't put his head down though like you want to see from a stayer.

The race Saturday will tell them a lot, as if Ginto is eventually confirmed for the bartlett and neither of the 2 mentioned trouble the winner on Saturday then why go for the bartlett ?
If Minella Crooner or Eric Bloodaxe wins it will further cloud the waters. Given the form line with JWM & Ginto.

[Craigy14]

I agree also.
Watching that race both GJ & Whatdeawant are both travelling well enough and Ginto is off the bridle first.
They loom up at the second last, they were almost upsides, maybe a length or so down in between the final two flights.
And he simply outstayed them, especially on that ground.
Both looked like they might benefit from better ground, although to be fair if hollow Games is the guide he did maintain his lead over that one. He Don't put his head down though like you want to see from a stayer.

The race Saturday will tell them a lot, as if Ginto is eventually confirmed for the bartlett and neither of the 2 mentioned trouble the winner on Saturday then why go for the bartlett ?
If Minella Crooner or Eric Bloodaxe wins it will further cloud the waters. Given the form line with JWM & Ginto.

Aye exactly Q.

The market is still a bit all over the place for here imo as I don’t think anyone is 100% confident on who’s likely to turn up yet (Gerri aside).

The fact Grand Jury is still not even shorter than JWM for here shows how little confidence punters have of the move to aim GJ here. I know that’s probably because of the liabilities built on JWM here but we’ve had word he’s not being aimed here which normally means push horse out to a silly price to void cash outs etc. He may change that view this weekend and we’ll be scrambling, but not for me.

Elliotts got the winner imo if JWM doesn’t come here imo, until Classic Getaway bolts up at Clonmel

[SeanRock]

I’m astonished Henry sees Grand Jury’s optimum trip at more than the mid range, watching the Lalor’s unfold I was convinced the Ballymore without Ginto making it a slog or even the Supreme would see him to best effect!

Shades of continuously sending Sizing John over an inadequate trip spring to mind! I fancy Eric Bloodaxe to make his stamina pay on Saturday.

[ComplyOrDie]

I’m astonished Henry sees Grand Jury’s optimum trip at more than the mid range, watching the Lalor’s unfold I was convinced the Ballymore without Ginto making it a slog or even the Supreme would see him to best effect!

Shades of continuously sending Sizing John over an inadequate trip spring to mind! I fancy Eric Bloodaxe to make his stamina pay on Saturday.

I find myself agreeing with you Sean. I do think, because they got racing so early on that stamina played a big part, and for me can't see how Grand Jury stepping up in trip is a logical step. I was thinking about this last night, and wondered if they had one eye on a handicap for him, as when he's beat at the DRF over 2m6f he'll likely not be too high for something like the Martin Pipe. The owners have Gerri & Journey With Me for the Bartlett/Ballymore already (albeit with different trainers), but they may want them all split up and this would be the only way to do so, as I can't see them stepping back down to 2m with GJ now.

[Muswell]

Gordon says the plan for Gerri is to come straight here

[Spectre]

I know I'm essentially repeating the views of others, but I really can't get my head around Journey With Me going to to the Ballymore and Grand Jury going to the Albert Bartlett.

Journey With Me looks like a classy galloping stayer. Not the type you want for a Ballymore at all. The Ballymore is always won by a horse with gears.

Grand Jury last time looked as though on better ground he could have reversed the form. Elliott clearly loves Ginto, and that makes Grand Jury's potential level of form at the mid-trip really interesting.

I like Henry de Bromhead a lot, and you can't knock his record, but I'm really struggling to figure out how he's got so muddled in his thinking. Right from the outset they saw Grand Jury as the quicker of the two, and Journey With Me as the likely stayer, and there's nothing happened on the racecourse that would likely change that thinking.

I really can't help wondering what (or who), has changed his mind. I actually find it really odd.

[ComplyOrDie]

I know I'm essentially repeating the views of others, but I really can't get my head around Journey With Me going to to the Ballymore and Grand Jury going to the Albert Bartlett.

Journey With Me looks like a classy galloping stayer. Not the type you want for a Ballymore at all. The Ballymore is always won by a horse with gears.

Grand Jury last time looked as though on better ground he could have reversed the form. Elliott clearly loves Ginto, and that makes Grand Jury's potential level of form at the mid-trip really interesting.

I like Henry de Bromhead a lot, and you can't knock his record, but I'm really struggling to figure out how he's got so muddled in his thinking. Right from the outset they saw Grand Jury as the quicker of the two, and Journey With Me as the likely stayer, and there's nothing happened on the racecourse that would likely change that thinking.

I really can't help wondering what (or who), has changed his mind. I actually find it really odd.

You're not alone Spectre it is a bit baffling that they seem to have chosen this route for the pair.

My only theory, as above, is that Grand Jury is beat this weekend and ends up in a Martin Pipe or something, thus leaving Robcour with one each in the Ballymore/Bartlett/Pipe, but this is loose and based on one thing, and that's Grand Jury being beaten far enough, which I can see happening as well.

[Can't Catch Me]

I can understand why people are surprised at Grand Jury going for the AB, but I can't understand why everyone is surprised about Journey With Me going for the Ballymore.

Obviously his flat run was a poor race, but I thought he travelled very powerfully and was actually quite keen. He definitely wanted to go faster. He was also keen enough at Leop and doesn't travel like you'd want an AB horse to for me. Essentially, he out speeded Minella Crooner at Leop and in another couple of furlongs that horse would have beaten him.

Personally, Id be more worried about him getting the AB trip against hardened stayers, than I would be about him having the speed required for a Ballymore.

[Splinterboy82]

I can understand why people are surprised at Grand Jury going for the AB, but I can't understand why everyone is surprised about Journey With Me going for the Ballymore.

Obviously his flat run was a poor race, but I thought he travelled very powerfully and was actually quite keen. He definitely wanted to go faster. He was also keen enough at Leop and doesn't travel like you'd want an AB horse to for me. Essentially, he out speeded Minella Crooner at Leop and in another couple of furlongs that horse would have beaten him.

Personally, Id be more worried about him getting the AB trip against hardened stayers, than I would be about him having the speed required for a Ballymore.

This is exactly my take which I referenced a couple of times. I think we really do need to see JWM again now to add some meat on the bones. If Minella Crooner wins tomorrow it’ll add even more spice to this debate…especially if he outstays GJ

[Silverbirch]

I can't figure out how or why yet, but part of me, has this feeling that big Gord has something to do with the jwm decision.
Hes holds all the cards with Albert Bartlett bar one. JWM.
He's got form lines with Crooner, he's got influence with Gerri.
Just can't quite nail it.