2022 Albert Bartlett Novices Hurdle

[Quevega]

If Hollow games had won in similar fashion to ginto
it would have been the opposite
don’t forget both Elliott and Russell both said hollow had more pace the other week
which I disagreed with

[Rooster Booster]

If Hollow games had won in similar fashion to ginto
it would have been the opposite
don’t forget both Elliott and Russell both said hollow had more pace the other week
which I disagreed with

Yeh but it’s not like he’s comparing bolt and gatlin is it

[Quevega]

I think it’s important to remember that not all handicap winners are plotted.
sometimes it just falls that way.

[Quevega]

If hollow game’s finishes 3rd or 4th in Dublin and gets a mark around 140.
would I back him for the pipe ? Yes
do I think he’s been plotted ? No

[Rooster Booster]

If hollow game’s finishes 3rd or 4th in Dublin and gets a mark around 140.
would I back him for the pipe ? Yes
do I think he’s been plotted ? No

Agree but it means you are more susceptible to ones that have so I’d feel pretty vulnerable backing a horse for the MP that I know has been running on its merits every time...it wouldn’t be very high up on my favoured choice of bet personally

[Saxon Warrior]

I think all he knows is that some are graded class and can go straight to the festival, and others still need to show more. Or they'll be in a handicap if he likes the mark.

I agree with that Q, Gordon has shifted quite a few over from Graded races into Handicaps, for sure.

These being separate from those all season Elliott handicap plot jobs.

Whereas Willie appears to have no real plot jobs of novices into Fez handicap hurdles, just uses the ratings in February, to decide to funnel some into Festival Handicap Hurdles, that wont be in his front line for each of the Grade 1 Novice Hurdle races.

[Quevega]

Gordon rarely sends his best graded horses to DRF.
Pre incident last year. He did not send Envoi, Sir G, Zanihayr were all kept at home as they were considered his best chances. Galvin did not run at DRF nor did Mount Ida or Black Tears.
The only Cullentra winner at festival last year who ran at DRF was Quilixilos who was considered 2nd string to Zanihayr.
I don’t see Hollow Games going to DRF as a positive.
Ginto should run in the Bartlett for me as I feel a speed horse will do him for toe in the Ballymore.

This is because he starts with his best horses sooner than Mullins.
Then if they win a grade 1 or 2 and look good enough, he likes to keep them fresh for March.
But I agree it's obviously a negative for Hollow Games chances - but he's only running in Dublin cos he's not earnt a Golden 1st class ticket to the festival yet. Had he won yesterday, like I said earlier then Ginto would be running again.
He's just sorting them out.

I think Elliott likes to keep the dream alive till Cheltenham rather than have the bubble burst by a Mullins horse in some cases.
Then with others I think he just knows he doesn't need to get the extra run as he's convinced they are going to go close anyway.
Combination of both.

He'll enter them all though, as if the race looks weak he'll run them in Dublin.

[Quevega]

I agree with that Q, Gordon has shifted quite a few over from Graded races into Handicaps, for sure.

These being separate from those all season Elliott handicap plot jobs.

Whereas Willie appears to have no real plot jobs of novices into Fez handicap hurdles, just uses the ratings in February, to decide to funnel some into Festival Handicap Hurdles, that wont be in his front line for each of the Grade 1 Novice Hurdle races.

Yeah, not sure what Spectre was disagreeing with.
Obviously a trainer like Gordon will have races in mind from early doors, but this changes with performance's as the season progresses.
But with any trainer once they've bagged a grade 1 it's easier to place them going forward, and they've cemented a position.
A horse like Hollow Games still has to do this.
Gordon will run several like this in Dublin and assess afterwards.
His graded winners already, are less likely to run again and will be placed nearer the time, depending on ground, owners, jockeys and opposition.

Obviously on occasions the boys are on, and the target is set pretty early.
Looks like Mike was the one this year.

[Rooster Booster]

Yeah, not sure what Spectre was disagreeing with.
Obviously a trainer like Gordon will have races in mind from early doors, but this changes with performance's as the season progresses.
But with any trainer once they've bagged a grade 1 it's easier to place them going forward, and they've cemented a position.
A horse like Hollow Games still has to do this.
Gordon will run several like this in Dublin and assess afterwards.
His graded winners already, are less likely to run again and will be placed nearer the time, depending on ground, owners, jockeys and opposition.

Obviously on occasions the boys are on, and the target is set pretty early.
Looks like Mike was the one this year.

I appreciate I could go through the records but I am hoping you can help me circumvent the process ..do either of you have in mind an Elliott novice that ran on its merits through the season, was deemed not good enough and then won a festival handicap as I am interested in this perspective ...many thanks

[Cunningham]

Blow by blow?

[AaronLad]

I appreciate I could go through the records but I am hoping you can help me circumvent the process ..do either of you have in mind an Elliott novice that ran on its merits through the season, was deemed not good enough and then won a festival handicap as I am interested in this perspective ...many thanks

Delta work won the pertemps as a novice. Could be argued he changed from graded to handicap over the season?

[Rooster Booster]

Blow by blow?

Yeh maybe...he only ran in one graded race prior to the festival and was beaten 33 lengths in it....ironically I backed him for the MP coz I thought he was a fruit lube and thought he could do anything HG feels like a thoroughly decent chap in comparison ... I need to mull this over I think because I can kind of see the appeal of HG for the MP as I have him covered for the AB but I’m not convinced tbh.

[Quevega]

I appreciate I could go through the records but I am hoping you can help me circumvent the process ..do either of you have in mind an Elliott novice that ran on its merits through the season, was deemed not good enough and then won a festival handicap as I am interested in this perspective ...many thanks

Not the best question.
It's framed as though you can always tell when they are not running on their merits or under optimum conditions.
He doesn't always win handicaps with the strongest in the market.
And he doesn't always win with horses that run in handicaps either.
Lending credence to the view that they're not all plots.

There are many ways to get a horse to win a handicap, as I'm sure you know. It does not always mean they've not being run to their merits.
They can use a lot of methods to get a horse reasonably handicapped for a specific race and conditions.
But a lot of the time, this can also happen naturally.

[Quevega]

Yeh maybe...he only ran in one graded race prior to the festival and was beaten 33 lengths in it....ironically I backed him for the MP coz I thought he was a fruit lube and thought he could do anything HG feels like a thoroughly decent chap in comparison ... I need to mull this over I think because I can kind of see the appeal of HG for the MP as I have him covered for the AB but I’m not convinced tbh.

You don't need to worry about the martin pipe, until he's well beaten in Dublin. If that's the case.
But if he's a decent price NRNB prior to then.
I'd consider it.

[Rooster Booster]

You don't need to worry about the martin pipe, until he's well beaten in Dublin. If that's the case.
But if he's a decent price NRNB prior to then.
I'd consider it.

Ok fair enough