2022 Triumph Hurdle

[Benjy23]

Weren't those comments about fil being better at home made directly after Pieds opening victory, were he also said he didnt thing PP would be fit enough to win.He'd only had PP a few weeks at that point too. My point is that he said fil was the better horse based on the few wks he'd had PP and whilst PP was a long way from being fit. He just wouldnt know at that point and for me those comments became redundant straight after PP's, according to GE, suprise win over Vauban.

Said it again last weekend.

[Splinterboy82]

How’s everyone think Fil Dor will get on this weekend? Got a sneaky feeling he’ll get turned over. As an Icare Allen backer for Triumph I hope the docket is still live Sunday morning but looks a good race on Sat. Willie doing his typical run the French 4yos fto in G1s and if they don’t win will be nice novices next season angle. Though looking closer, Vadaly won in Aug so will be into open mares next season - fascinating race this for me

[Lobos]

FD's extra experience will be a huge plus on Saturday. Expect him to bully them and win again with a bit in hand whilst not looking overly impressive like he has all season. He looks a ready made Triumph horse to me. Hard as nails.

[Irish Rugby]

Find myself agreeing with you again Lobos. FD looks like a real tough it out campaigner, and will just do enough and more importantly, is getting more experience, Saturday being another one. What we just don't know is how good Vauban is. Did Pipe Piper improve tremendously last week or are Vauban and Pied Piper close in ability.

[CJW]

7s about Icare Allen for Saturday. Ladbrokes. Overpriced for sure.

[Kevloaf]

Find myself agreeing with you again Lobos. FD looks like a real tough it out campaigner, and will just do enough and more importantly, is getting more experience, Saturday being another one. What we just don't know is how good Vauban is. Did Pipe Piper improve tremendously last week or are Vauban and Pied Piper close in ability.

You'd have to say Pied Piper improved tremendously... the problem is Vauban is entitled to as well so it doesn't help enermously

[darlojim]

You'd have to say Pied Piper improved tremendously... the problem is Vauban is entitled to as well so it doesn't help enermously

Patrick said (and i know he's not exactly one to trust) that he thought Vauban was incredibly unlucky not to win on debut with what he called Davy doing the 'dark arts' and coming across V before the final flight. Sounded confident Vauban would be able to at least match the improvement PP has shown.

[Lobos]

You'd have to say Pied Piper improved tremendously... the problem is Vauban is entitled to as well so it doesn't help enermously

His win looked spectacular but the two behind him in the betting ran no race at all so perhaps he was flattered? Saturday will tell us more. I do expect FD to outbattle Vauban and co. Its not my most favourite race but if I do have a bet in it Willie is not on my radar. Apart from winning it by default with Burning Victory his run/win ratio is not good reading.

[Exar Essay]

7s about Icare Allen for Saturday. Ladbrokes. Overpriced for sure.

Agreed. That's decent ew territory that.

[Kevloaf]

Patrick said (and i know he's not exactly one to trust) that he thought Vauban was incredibly unlucky not to win on debut with what he called Davy doing the 'dark arts' and coming across V before the final flight. Sounded confident Vauban would be able to at least match the improvement PP has shown.

Yeah, I think even if he was unlucky that day, Pied Piper improved. However as eluded to, you'd expect Vauban too as well!

His win looked spectacular but the two behind him in the betting ran no race at all so perhaps he was flattered? Saturday will tell us more. I do expect FD to outbattle Vauban and co. Its not my most favourite race but if I do have a bet in it Willie is not on my radar. Apart from winning it by default with Burning Victory his run/win ratio is not good reading.

You can definitely argue he was flattered, it's just to what degree. Winning on the bridle up the hill is impressive enough in a graded race under the majority of circumstances.



I don't imagine I'll be able to be in one camp or the other in terms of who I think wins this weekend. I've not backed Fil Dor at all, and Vauban is my best result... so I know who I want to win but that's not the same thing!

[Istabraq]

Personally I can’t give the Pied Piper Cheltenham form the same level of credibility as many others.
For me it’s clear the Irish are streets ahead of UK horses (bar possibly Porticello) so when one of their hotpots performs a demolition job like PP did it’s visually impressive but doesn’t carry enormous clout for me…

[Can't Catch Me]

Personally I can’t give the Pied Piper Cheltenham form the same level of credibility as many others.
For me it’s clear the Irish are streets ahead of UK horses (bar possibly Porticello) so when one of their hotpots performs a demolition job like PP did it’s visually impressive but doesn’t carry enormous clout for me…

Totally agree Ista. Obviously the horse could do no more than he did, but I would be very wary of the form. Not a huge times man myself, but Simon Rowlands observation that he ran the extended two miles in an almost identical time to the 130 rated Cormier in the preceding handicap, carrying 6lb less, was noteworthy.

[Kevloaf]

Personally I can’t give the Pied Piper Cheltenham form the same level of credibility as many others.
For me it’s clear the Irish are streets ahead of UK horses (bar possibly Porticello) so when one of their hotpots performs a demolition job like PP did it’s visually impressive but doesn’t carry enormous clout for me…

How many (and which) Irish horses would have done the same is the question...

We would all still end up with the same fancies ...

Will you favour the DRF winner over Pied Piper I suppose is the question I'm asking?

I think a lot will.

[charlie]

Personally I can’t give the Pied Piper Cheltenham form the same level of credibility as many others.
For me it’s clear the Irish are streets ahead of UK horses (bar possibly Porticello) so when one of their hotpots performs a demolition job like PP did it’s visually impressive but doesn’t carry enormous clout for me…

In the last decade the average winning RPR is 150 with an average RPR of 137 prior to winning this. Pied Piper ran to 134 on debut which only two horses have bettered in the last 10 years (Peace & Co and Tiger Roll). Pied Piper posted an RPR of 140 without being asked a question and could have bettered this if asked. He's won hard held, handled the track and jumped really well. That's more than half the battle won with a juvenile, all on his second start, which IMO means you can mark the performance up further. We're all hard wired to access form credibility, but IMO, it's not really that relevant here all things considered.

[DenmanSacre]

Totally agree Ista. Obviously the horse could do no more than he did, but I would be very wary of the form. Not a huge times man myself, but Simon Rowlands observation that he ran the extended two miles in an almost identical time to the 130 rated Cormier in the preceding handicap, carrying 6lb less, was noteworthy.

He did it very easily though. Cormier is rated 134 after that run. If Pied Piper had to run in the same race, he would be getting around a stone from Cormier so he's ran 142ish very easily. Your time comparison is pretty good viewing for Pied Piper