2022 Turners Novices Chase (ex Marsh)

[Kevloaf]

Yes, I do.

It's much to our annoyance that the Ryanair is a G1, but ultimately we have to accept it, and I don't think Henry nor Robcour will turn their noses up at a G1 Chase at a Cheltenham Festival.

Henry has said previously (will try and find the actual quote if required) that he sees no reason to step him up in trip yet, or something along them lines.

If he wins the Turners, I can fairly comfortably see him going for the Ryanair, and then onto the Gold Cup the following year, aged 9.

I actually think his optimum trip is the intermediate one anyway, and think he has the potential to be found out over further.

Fair enough!

I'd be surprised if that was the majority verdict but it's not lacking logic.

I suppose I hear something like 'doesn't want to go up in trip yet' and assume that ends after Cheltenham.... try 3 miles at second season chaser stage....

Especially with a star.

Then again, he could win at Cheltenham, get walloped up in trip after that by Galopin Des Champs so it's all a bit 'what if' at the moment.

Looking forward to them clashing though.

[ComplyOrDie]

Looking forward to them clashing though.

This I can definitely get on board with, exciting times!

[DenmanSacre]

I may be in the minority but I have no issue with the Ryanair and horses being aimed at it instead of the CC or GC.

The Ryanair tests both speed and stamina. Over the last 10 years, there hasn't been one GC performance IMO that was more special than the performances of Vautour, UDS and Allaho. In the CC it would only be Sprinters first win that matches the visual impression at the time of those performances, though his 2nd win is my favourite Cheltenham race in that period for different reasons. Vautour, UDS and Allaho were phenomenal in the Ryanair.

Would people prefer them to be in the CC or GC and maybe get a place, or watch horses put in breathtaking performances?

It has always struck me that on the flat, the most prestigious horses tend to be those at the mid trips - 1m to 1m4. Yet in NH, you can be a superstar at 2m or 3m but if you were the best horse in training at 2 and a half miles, the horse tends to be criticised for it. This is despite

If they think Bob is going to be best over the mid trip as a seasoned chaser, then I'd welcome it if he can give us performances like the 3 mentioned above and live long in the memory.

[Istabraq]

I actually think his optimum trip is the intermediate one anyway, and think he has the potential to be found out over further.

So hard to have a view when the horse has had one chase start don’t you think CoD ?
I keep going back to his Ballymore, he wasn’t stopping at the line…

[Carnage at Taunton]

I may be in the minority but I have no issue with the Ryanair and horses being aimed at it instead of the CC or GC.

The Ryanair tests both speed and stamina. Over the last 10 years, there hasn't been one GC performance IMO that was more special than the performances of Vautour, UDS and Allaho. In the CC it would only be Sprinters first win that matches the visual impression at the time of those performances, though his 2nd win is my favourite Cheltenham race in that period for different reasons. Vautour, UDS and Allaho were phenomenal in the Ryanair.

Would people prefer them to be in the CC or GC and maybe get a place, or watch horses put in breathtaking performances?

It has always struck me that on the flat, the most prestigious horses tend to be those at the mid trips - 1m to 1m4. Yet in NH, you can be a superstar at 2m or 3m but if you were the best horse in training at 2 and a half miles, the horse tends to be criticised for it. This is despite

If they think Bob is going to be best over the mid trip as a seasoned chaser, then I'd welcome it if he can give us performances like the 3 mentioned above and live long in the memory.

I ca totally get what you are saying.
I was at Ascot when Kauto Star won the Ascot chase over the middle distance and he was breathtaking, and I’m so glad he stayed 3m, otherwise it all would have been so different.
Bob I’m sure will be tried at 3m, just like eg Vautour was.
For me a horse should not be rated lower by us simply because it struggles to stay further imo.
Vautour was a far better horse than a fair few gold cup winners I’ve seen.

[jack1092]

So hard to have a view when the horse has had one chase start don’t you think CoD ?
I keep going back to his Ballymore, he wasn’t stopping at the line…

A bit like recent winners of the race, i can't see him being a GC horse either tbh.

I'd far rather be on GDCs for a GC than Bob Olinger. Even after GDC's routing last time. Just feel Bobo is too classy to be going 3m2. I'm sure plenty will say back in the day so and so did it....but it doesn't happen as often now does it? I

[Carnage at Taunton]

A bit like recent winners of the race, i can't see him being a GC horse either tbh.

I'd far rather be on GDCs for a GC than Bob Olinger. Even after GDC's routing last time. Just feel Bobo is too classy to be going 3m2. I'm sure plenty will say back in the day so and so did it....but it doesn't happen as often now does it? I

He’s just started chasing and yet to be tried over further.
Its 50/50 whether 3m suits him imo.
Its also early days to be too definite on how he compares to GDC and maybe other horses starting their chase careers.
Exciting times with horses like these that’s for sure.

[jack1092]

He’s just started chasing and yet to be tried over further.
Its 50/50 whether 3m suits him imo.
Its also early days to be too definite on how he compares to GDC and maybe other horses starting their chase careers.
Exciting times with horses like these that’s for sure.

I'm more judging the horse from his hurdles as well though. Agreed it's early days, and i'm not saying who is better than who. Just think Bob would be more 2m than 3m2, that's all.

Also realise there's plenty of horses that will develop differently at different times, mature etc.

[ComplyOrDie]

So hard to have a view when the horse has had one chase start don’t you think CoD ?
I keep going back to his Ballymore, he wasn’t stopping at the line…

I can only base it on what I've seen and his breeding. The argument on the breeding front would, no doubt, be Don Cossack (who actually ran in the Ryanair before his Gold Cup victory), from his sires side, but his dams side would show a different story with the intermediate trip being optimal, although those were lightly raced so I guess unproven over further.

I could never definitively say he won't stay or win at 3m, I think he most definitely will be able to win because of his class, but he may be found out at the top level at the trip would be my main concern.

The fact Henry thought he could be a 2 mile hurdler before his defeat to Ferny Hollow also gives me an indication that he's not for lacking speed (not that this was in doubt).

A question for those with time on their hands, but has a Ballymore winner ever gone on to win a Gold Cup? There must be at least one, surely, but recent history doesn't suggest this.

[Istabraq]

A question for those with time on their hands, but has a Ballymore winner ever gone on to win a Gold Cup? There must be at least one, surely, but recent history doesn't suggest this.

Not sure about Ballymore winners but Denman went close…

[Rooster Booster]

I can only base it on what I've seen and his breeding. The argument on the breeding front would, no doubt, be Don Cossack (who actually ran in the Ryanair before his Gold Cup victory), from his sires side, but his dams side would show a different story with the intermediate trip being optimal, although those were lightly raced so I guess unproven over further.

I could never definitively say he won't stay or win at 3m, I think he most definitely will be able to win because of his class, but he may be found out at the top level at the trip would be my main concern.

The fact Henry thought he could be a 2 mile hurdler before his defeat to Ferny Hollow also gives me an indication that he's not for lacking speed (not that this was in doubt).

A question for those with time on their hands, but has a Ballymore winner ever gone on to win a Gold Cup? There must be at least one, surely, but recent history doesn't suggest this.

Davy Lad??

[ComplyOrDie]

Davy Lad??

Cheers, knew there would be at least one Way, way, way before my time though

[Rooster Booster]

[QUOTE=ComplyOrDie;n341909]

Cheers, knew there would be at least one Way, way, way before my time though [/QUOTE

Gordon should show Ginto some old DL videos

[Craigy14]

I’ve had 1P at 25/1 for Stattler in this. Bet to nothing to be honest.

He ran really well over 2m4f on debut imo and I just wonder if that changes their thinking re the NHC for him. If Capodanno and En baton/Ontheropes could be DOC and Patrick’s rides there, then maybe Stattler could come here. Reason here over the BANC is hes 12/1 with pp here joint shortest for the Turners of any mullins runner if you exclude Galopin Des champs. He’s also 20/1 with the same firm for the BANC. We’ve all thought Gaillard looks a 3m horse so maybe he joins Galopin and Stattler and Jungle boogie come here. All ifs buts and maybes I know but at 25/1 with 365 it’s a good few points bigger than pp.

It’s probably just pp adjusting prior to nrnb but for 1P why not. For all he’s a genius, he may get 1 or 2 wrong from time to time Mr Mullins.

[Frankely My Dear]

Shepherds pie pants reading this page, thank God it's a false alarm.

This made me proper laugh, would be exactly like that after all the shit I've consumed over Christmas, Bob being out would trigger the cardiac arrest