2022 Queen Mother Champion Chase

[Lobos]

Won't get up the hill - one of the stupidest comments I've seen on here. Look at Energumene's race history. Just because Shishkin overtook him near the line today doesn't mean Energumene was stopping today.

The complete opposite to me . Energumene runs at a strong, fast even pace all the way which screams Stayer whereas Shishkin can find additional gears when he wants. Personally think Energumene could be a GC horse next season. Don't see anyway he'll reverse the form with Shishkin in March if they both arrive in the same form.

[Benjy23]

Aye, I deliberately avoided the phrase 'outstay him'. Shishkin just has a phenomenal finish at the end of 2 miles doesn't he. And the hill will be the location of that at Cheltenham, again.

It's not a case of Energumene not getting up the hill.

[Markmightbite]

Won't get up the hill - one of the stupidest comments I've seen on here. Look at Energumene's race history. Just because Shishkin overtook him near the line today doesn't mean Energumene was stopping today.

Absolutely no need for the stupid comment stance.. it’s my opinion , I thought that’s what this site is all about.. I don’t believe he has any chance at Cheltenham now seeing as shishkin is better left handed and has all the experience needed at Cheltenham. Tell me you disagree, don’t say it’s stupid!

[DenmanSacre]

The complete opposite to me . Energumene runs at a strong, fast even pace all the way which screams Stayer whereas Shishkin can find additional gears when he wants. Personally think Energumene could be a GC horse next season. Don't see anyway he'll reverse the form with Shishkin in March if they both arrive in the same form.

Completely disagree.

Energumene proved today that he travels much, much better over the minimum distance than Shishkin. Why would you move him up in trip when he travels as well as that. No stayer in training would be able to travel as well as that over 2m and manage to take Shishkin out of his comfort zone for so long. They are both genuine, top class 2 milers.

Looking at the time of the race and the pace they went early, I think the tactics next time at Cheltenham will be to go even faster early on and put Shishkin under pressure early as Shishkin will be too strong at the end if Energumene doesn't manage to put enough distance between them.

Will it work? Probably not as Shishkin is an exceptional horse and does all of his best work at the end of the race. Shishkin does however have to go through the gears and his top gear is truly exceptional, but his comfortable cruising speed is slightly lower than Energumenes IMO and that is what Mullins and Townsend will need to try and exploit.

They'll also be hoping the race has taken more out of Shishkin than it has Energumene.

Champion Chase is looking like the race of the meeting and let's hope they both turn up. It's odds on Shishkin will prove to be his better again at Cheltenham but there was enough there for a glimmer of hope for Energumene.

[Quevega]

Absolutely no need for the stupid comment stance.. it’s my opinion , I thought that’s what this site is all about.. I don’t believe he has any chance at Cheltenham now seeing as shishkin is better left handed and has all the experience needed at Cheltenham. Tell me you disagree, don’t say it’s stupid!

It’s because historically that type of comment implies non stayer. Which is clearly not the case.
I assumed you meant not as well as shishkin will.
which is fair comment and maybe best to slightly expand next time.
The original comment will get biters cos I nearly did.

[Quevega]

Completely disagree.

Energumene proved today that he travels much, much better over the minimum distance than Shishkin. Why would you move him up in trip when he travels as well as that. No stayer in training would be able to travel as well as that over 2m and manage to take Shishkin out of his comfort zone for so long. They are both genuine, top class 2 milers.

Looking at the time of the race and the pace they went early, I think the tactics next time at Cheltenham will be to go even faster early on and put Shishkin under pressure early as Shishkin will be too strong at the end if Energumene doesn't manage to put enough distance between them.

Will it work? Probably not as Shishkin is an exceptional horse and does all of his best work at the end of the race. Shishkin does however have to go through the gears and his top gear is truly exceptional, but his comfortable cruising speed is slightly lower than Energumenes IMO and that is what Mullins and Townsend will need to try and exploit.

They'll also be hoping the race has taken more out of Shishkin than it has Energumene.

Champion Chase is looking like the race of the meeting and let's hope they both turn up. It's odds on Shishkin will prove to be his better again at Cheltenham but there was enough there for a glimmer of hope for Energumene.

Yeah 2 up front will help - chacon and Energumene in relay style like mentioned earlier
make him have to go wider or sit in behind either further back to get a view of his fences or in behind where you risk not getting as good a sighter

[Markmightbite]

It’s because historically that type of comment implies non stayer. Which is clearly not the case.
I assumed you meant not as well as shishkin will.
which is fair comment and maybe best to slightly expand next time.
The original comment will get biters cos I nearly did.

Thanks for the reply quevega your one of the ones I follow on here along with Kev and sceptre…….Its still my opinion.. I don’t think he will stay up the hill.. never raced there totally different course.. I actually cashed my energumene bets today and am all in on shishkin. I don’t usually post in here but I that race moved me today, was amazing to see.so I don’t get someone jumping down my throat when I post what is simply an opinion..

[Benjy23]

Reckon ricci would take some convincing to sacrifice his horses chances completely (the little he has) to advantage a horse he has nothing to do with.

Those tactics ever actually worked in NH anyway? Relaying on the lead?

[FinalFurlong91]

Reckon ricci would take some convincing to sacrifice his horses chances completely (the little he has) to advantage a horse he has nothing to do with.

Those tactics ever actually worked in NH anyway? Relaying on the lead?

Didnt say it would be a deliberate tactic

CPS jockey will want to make the running like he has in all of his top performances

If he gets there

[The Fellow]

if Shishkin was 90% ready today and Energumene was 85% who wins if they get to the festival both near 100% , the bare facts are we don't know just how much is left to work on for March , either could win , there is only a length between them , just wish Energumene went 4/1 after today

[FinalFurlong91]

Thanks for the reply quevega your one of the ones I follow on here along with Kev and sceptre…….Its still my opinion.. I don’t think he will stay up the hill.. never raced there totally different course.. I actually cashed my energumene bets today and am all in on shishkin. I don’t usually post in here but I that race moved me today, was amazing to see.so I don’t get someone jumping down my throat when I post what is simply an opinion..

I'm not sure why you'd cash your energumene bets

Was very little between them and the champion chase is a shorter distance than the Clarence house as the CH is 2m 170 yards or something

[Many Clouds]

Do we know what Shishkin hit in running on the exchange and subsequently what Energs low was ?

Energumene hit 1.13 in running

[FinalFurlong91]

Its very possible theyve both had such a hard race today they won't run to the same level in march

Cyrname vs altior anyone?
enable vs crystal ocean?

[Markmightbite]

I'm not sure why you'd cash your energumene bets

Was very little between them and the champion chase is a shorter distance than the Clarence house as the CH is 2m 170 yards or something

See your point, my gut just says shishkin will be better next time so I’m all in

[DenmanSacre]

Absolutely no need for the stupid comment stance.. it’s my opinion , I thought that’s what this site is all about.. I don’t believe he has any chance at Cheltenham now seeing as shishkin is better left handed and has all the experience needed at Cheltenham. Tell me you disagree, don’t say it’s stupid!

Q's comment to you is correct but you have still stated your opinion is that Energumene won't come up the Cheltenham hill. When ridiculous statements are made that can't be backed up, they need calling out.

This is a horse that has put in an exceptional time on heavy ground over 2m4 at Gowran Park, which was probably the best performance by a novice over the mid distance last season.

He has won over 2m at Naas and Leopardstown which have stiff uphill finishes pretty much on par with Cheltenham and flew up those hills.

He will come up the hill at Cheltenham. The issue is that based on today Shishkin will just get up it quicker.