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Do people on here complain about information leaking out of yards? You'll need to elaborate. I'm not sure what you mean.
Also I'm not sure people being put away is a counter balance to anything really is it? It's just people being put away.
you might have more info to actual have a grip about being 'put away', but from here it looks like you got access to info and used it to make yourself money. The fact that this was via cashout as opposed to laying on an exchange is meaningless imo.
I'm surprised you ask me to elaborate, it seems to me that everytime there is an exchange movement people are complaining about 'insiders' at yards taking advantage of non public info. Perhaps its just me
I completely agree with that and have no problem with inside info - the point was the contrast with both other people on here and with his own complaint about being 'put away'.
Care to explain how you view the difference between 'merely stop loss'ing' and laying?
I don't know what's worse.
Being labelled 'The Mole'
or likened to Western Warhorse earlier.
or being called a Total Prick the other day (not moderated by the way ) by the most miserable c**t I've never met.
I've just tested the search function. 'Total prick' only showed two results and I could have guessed who you were alluding to without using it
Who are the 'right people' ?
And are they still the 'right people' ? now they've been wrong on this occasion ?
And how come I don't know any of the 'right people'
I met Mike Pickering once though.
Got all excited then, but then realised you weren’t on about Ronnie Pickering
Ener - Paul ?? despite Willie's hints
PTKO - assume Aiden again
So Chacun - Rachael ? (often rides the Mr Blobby colours for Wiilie....and if i were her, i'd been steering Envoi to Ryanair if had chance of this).....or Danny (riding so well this year and getting more rides for Willie)......or Patrick (surely, good as he is....a disadvantage on other 2 ?)
I can see Rich Ricci thinking a change might work as a new plan?
Ener - Paul ?? despite Willie's hints
PTKO - assume Aiden again
So Chacun - Rachael ? (often rides the Mr Blobby colours for Wiilie....and if i were her, i'd been steering Envoi to Ryanair if had chance of this).....or Danny (riding so well this year and getting more rides for Willie)......or Patrick (surely, good as he is....a disadvantage on other 2 ?)
I can see Rich Ricci thinking a change might work as a new plan?
I wouldn't rule out Patrick riding Chacun if the spare was available. He's ridden a lot of Ricci horses the last few years
I wouldn't rule out Patrick riding Chacun if the spare was available. He's ridden a lot of Ricci horses the last few years
Love Patrick, but that's a mistake if they do over top professionals
I agree....and its a variable juggling with re my Chacun play....Willie has been talking him up.....and seems to have a plan....he seems to want Paul to rise him....and then guessing Danny gets Ener ?
I don't know what's worse.
Being labelled 'The Mole'
or likened to Western Warhorse earlier.
or being called a Total Prick the other day (not moderated by the way ) by the most miserable c**t I've never met.
This Energumene things absolutely stinks. Some 'well informed' people were put away and believed it to be true, and lots of people bailed on the back of it. Someone somewhere profited from this, and the Exchange should be scrutinising accounts. There is a very dirty smell all around this.
Aye it's horse manure in the WPM stable......wtf is going on there ?? ADV Ener GDC (RSA or Turners) I know they live in their own wee world but this is appalling.........ADV is still available on Bet365 for at least 4 races (come on lads) I think Q has done us all a favour and concentrated our minds on the WPM circus and it's dubious methods........maybe we can have races priced up without this maelstrom of a guessing game every year ??
I completely agree with that and have no problem with inside info - the point was the contrast with both other people on here and with his own complaint about being 'put away'.
Care to explain how you view the difference between 'merely stop loss'ing' and laying?
Does anyone really need to explain the difference between cashing out and laying thorne? I guess so.
Bet365 offer cash out to attract punters. And punters use it when they need to. And surely anyone with an ounce of common sense will cash out a bet if they're told a horse is injured and out of the Festival. Bet365 allow you to do so. The cash out offer is precisely why they are so successful compared to the other bookmakers at laying antepost.
Laying a horse on the exchange when it's known to be injured and won't run is very different and morally wrong in my opinion. I guess it depends on your individual morals though, as to whether you'd see a difference or not.
Are you saying people shouldn't cash out because it's wrong in some way? Are you okay with punters laying horses known to be injured? The difference is something you could perhaps explain as you felt the need to ask the question of the poster who responded to you.
If someone connected to a stable or horse deliberately circulates false information, then that's putting people away. When that information has been sent to reliable and credible people, and it's known that it'll be shared, then someone did so to profit though a blatant lie. It was done to manipulate a market for financial gain. In the financial world there are criminal penalties for such things. Cashing out with Bet365 is just an offer they make that punters are allowed to use. Therefore I'm surprised you would even ask the question.
I'm also surprised you find any of this an 'amusing counterbalance'. Given you've taken a contrary position on this, which part do you condone? I probably wouldn't take issue with you here if you'd just used the word 'counterbalance'. I take issue with you finding 'amusement' in people on here, and elsewhere, losing money because of information that was circulated that was a lie.
Ultimately, if there is any suspicion that the information came from anyone connected to a stable then it should be investigated. It pulls on the integrity of the sport. In this instance it appears, someone, or some people have deliberately sent out wrong information about Energumene being out of the Festival to push the price out and to hoover up bigger prices. Therefore the Exchange needs to be called out to investigate who profited, and what the connection is.
Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more I sweat, the luckier I get.
Does anyone really need to explain the difference between cashing out and laying thorne? I guess so.
The only difference in your case is that a massive company are on the other side of you having access to inside info [correct or incorrect as in this case]. Betting is a zero sum game whether the other side of your bet is an anonymous layer on bf or an algorithm at a big firm and you making this decision impacts the ecosystem in both cases [as we are seeing with b365 changing their approach].
Regarding the morals of laying an injured horse because you have non public info - no I wouldn't condone that, and my 'amusement' comes from the fact that you are happily taking advantage of this, yet seemingly oblivious to the fact that you are doing the same thing. There is fundamentally a big difference between cashing out because a horse has underperformed [or over-performed] and because you have non public info about an injury. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
And surely anyone with an ounce of common sense will cash out a bet if they're told a horse is injured and out of the Festival
Your argument is probably that b365/pp bring this on themselves by offering this product, which is correct to a certain degree, but if you're talking morals how is it any different to making money on the exchange. Because you're a few steps removed from the yard? You personally are profiting from information other people do not yet have.
I'm also surprised you find any of this an 'amusing counterbalance'. Given you've taken a contrary position on this
I was astonished you admitted to regularly taking advantage of non public info so i feel you opened yourself up to criticism there, but my counterbalance comment was mainly in reference to people on here complaining about information asymmetry in general. The only way to eliminate that completely is to ensure info doesn't sneak out of yards and that people dont act on it if it does. You openly stated that you had a different view on this [in my head] with your statement/actions which i found funny as it's unusual in a punter.
So in summary: I probably have a different view than the norm on how dealings should be done with bookmakers, and feel all interactions should be 'fair'. To touch on the laying aspect on an exchange - as stated I don't see much difference between what you did and if i was to lay on bf after picking the info up from a source. I agree the original source is bad and should probably be punished [again for me this is more a systematic issue with the racing/betting world that needs a lot more changes].
I would add that when a horse is ruled out after movement on the exchange.
Many people shout that "It stinks"
What they're saying is that they're annoyed that others have profited or benefited from the information "before me".
Had any of these people had the same information then they would have acted in their own interests (at least 99% would anyway)
And in spectre's scenario, the ones that got this information first were unfortunately sold a dummy, so this also "stinks"
It's thieves robbing thieves really.
Bit like taking backhanders and then one day finding the cash is in forged notes.
I suppose it's what stinks the most really, and that's a matter of opinion, and this may also depend how liberal or conservative you are.
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) by the most miserable c**t I've never met. 
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