2022 Arkle

[ToniC]

It is an EBF race so may not be qualified. Also it is on the Inner Circuit at Fairyhouse which could be a factor

Pretty sure being by Jeremy he would be - think the sire just has to pay a yearly fee to the EBF. But I wouldn’t be the best person to tell you.

[Exar Essay]

Wasn't a guarantee though. Something always seems to 'happen' to one of the others when it comes to the Arkle. Duc Des Genievres was an able deputy (in the shi**est Arkle....EVER), for Cilaos Emery, but no guarantee both would have run prior to this.

I agree no guarantee and the Willie runs one in the Arkle is one of my favourites; it seems a bloody firm trend. But given that FDP and Energumene were likely to line up last year, and given the recency, it just tempered my view slightly.

[Kautostar]

I agree no guarantee and the Willie runs one in the Arkle is one of my favourites; it seems a bloody firm trend. But given that FDP and Energumene were likely to line up last year, and given the recency, it just tempered my view slightly.

I don’t think Willie will have a problem running two in the Arkle, I just highly doubt it will be his best two!

[Kautostar]

If Bob Olinger is as good a hurdler as he is a chaser, assuming he’s heading into the marsh unbeaten fav and I owned last years supreme winner, no way would I wear anybody telling me my horse was going to go and take Bob on in the marsh.

He won’t sell it to you as though you’re the sacrificial lamb! He’ll say I think AI will benefit for the step up in trip or in Ferny hollows case he’ll say you’ve already beaten Bob o over hurdles so you have a great chance of winning the marsh.
Bob might not even make the marsh yet it’s only December so both races could look like penalty kicks by March would then enhance the chances of 1 stepping up in trip.

[FinalFurlong91]

I don’t think Willie will have a problem running two in the Arkle, I just highly doubt it will be his best two!

Agreed

If he has two standouts they will be split up

He may run a couple but id personally be surprised if it was ferny and AI

From what i remember reading Archie saying about having horses with willie, the final decision is made by Mr mullins and not the owners im sure he'll correct me if im remembering incorrectly

[FinalFurlong91]

If Bob Olinger is as good a hurdler as he is a chaser, assuming he’s heading into the marsh unbeaten fav and I owned last years supreme winner, no way would I wear anybody telling me my horse was going to go and take Bob on in the marsh.

I feel like if you were an owner handing out ultimatums like that im not sure willie or any top trainer would put up with you very long

[Istabraq]

From what i remember reading Archie saying about having horses with willie, the final decision is made by Mr mullins and not the owners im sure he'll correct me if im remembering incorrectly

archie has always said that Mullins owns and decides all racing plans, I don't doubt there are discussions between big owners and the trainer but ultimately owner place horses with trainers to win races, I get the impression Mullins simply won't entertain an owner who wants to decide race engagements...

[Can't Catch Me]

One things for sure. This one is going to run and run!

[ToniC]

I feel like if you were an owner handing out ultimatums like that im not sure willie or any top trainer would put up with you very long

Gigginstown certainly don’t let anybody get the better of them when it comes to what they think is best, then again that may be a factor in why their relationship with WPM didn’t last

[Irish Rugby]

If I was a trainer and I had an owner telling me what races their horses should be aimed at, I couldn't see that working for much time. I'm sure there's a fair few here posting who own horses. Do you tell your trainers what to do? Isn't that what you pay them for to train and place your horses for you?

[robith]

My default position would be that he would split them up, and hard to know which way as there's a lot of competing cases. Ferny beat Bolly, so there's that, but then before Ferny's injury, AI was seen as a horse needing a trip.

However, Mullins has what feels like (please do correct me) an above average number of above average novice chasers this year compared to previous? And at pretty much all 3 distances. So something has to give! I think Can't Catch Me says, it will run, and the best approach is to cover you own opinion, be prepared to be wrong and not deal in absolutes (after all, only a Sith does that)

[Spectre]

If I was a trainer and I had an owner telling me what races their horses should be aimed at, I couldn't see that working for much time. I'm sure there's a fair few here posting who own horses. Do you tell your trainers what to do? Isn't that what you pay them for to train and place your horses for you?

No, but there are circumstances when any owner would. If my horse had been campaigned over two miles and is unbeaten winning comfortably, and has a very clear and obvious chance of winning an Arkle, I would be extremely unhappy if my horse was moved aside for another horse in different ownership.

I'm as easy going as it gets with these things and very patient, and whilst I'd always discuss plans with Trainers and even float ideas, I would have no problem with a trainer making a different plan if they thought it best and explained it through. If this happened though I'd feel very different, and it wouldn't matter if that was Willie Mullins or any other trainer. If I was treated with such a lack of respect, and felt that another owner was given preference, I'd genuinely consider moving my horse to another stable to still take up the Arkle engagement.

[Craigy14]

I think, as is usual with WPM, the decision will likely be left to as close to the festival as possible (if they both perform well at 2m). He may make his mind up earlier, have a talk with the owner of the horse that will be moving up in trip so they are kept in the loop. I agree that the owners pay the trainers to make these calls but I’d also think the owner would want to know what the plan was. I don’t think for one second WPM would deflect from such questions.

He’s publicly stated “the Arkle dream is certainly alive” in his stable tour about Appreciate It. That says he expects AI to perform and be potentially his best 2 miler imo. Cheveley Parks racing manager has since come out post Ferny novice chase debut and said all roads lead to the Arkle, now I agree with others and say it won’t be his decision to make.

I don’t have any singles on either horse (both too short and didn’t think Ferny would go 2m or was worth the risk after long absence) but have both covered in doubles etc. What I would say is if I was the owner of Appreciate It and he performs well at 2m you would be a bit pissed if WPM moved your horse up in trip as the Supreme winner to take on potentially Bob Ollinger, My Drogo which on paper would look a lot harder than taking on at this stage what the Arkle has in store. The owners won’t tell WPM what to do but they aren’t stupid and will know how horses perform and where they will likely should be going surely? Those conversations will likely take place. The sell to Cheveley imo is a lot easier than the sell to the Mastersons about going up in trip at the minute.

If Ferny is beaten by Rivi?re detal should they both run at Xmas I think it’s case closed. It will be her last chance for both sex and weight for age allowances so getting 13lbs off Ferny is that right? Elliott would be crazy to miss the chance of a Grade 1 this side of Xmas by skipping it when at Cheltenham she would only be getting 7lbs.

[Irish Rugby]

Spectre, many thanks for that. I guess diplomacy and having the right temperament in dealing with members of the public is paramount, in this case wealthy owners where you would want a long term business relationship to flourish. You'd think the trainer would have many honest conversations on a horse's ability with the owner throughout the season. This year, particularly, you do feel Willie has perhaps even more stars/potential stars on his hands and a diverse number of owners to also juggle.

[jack1092]

Pretty sure being by Jeremy he would be - think the sire just has to pay a yearly fee to the EBF. But I wouldn’t be the best person to tell you.

He did sound very doubtful on him running this weekend- said it on irishracing website....Xmas sounded much more likely.