2022 Handicaps

[Garrison Savannah]

I'm not sure that's what I'd class as walking through a fence, as he hardly broke stride. And hurdled most fences like these French types tend to do.
Would you not back him for that reason alone ?
Bit fussy. I reckon.

That’s not what I said.

[Quevega]

That’s not what I said.

I know.
It was a question.

[Garrison Savannah]

I know.
It was a question.

I know.
What price you giving me?

[denman]

No problem even if you were Fatcatshat. You're entitled to take a different view, and I wouldn't take offence.

It's the timing that's important here. You're right, a number of 'blue tick' twitter posters will move markets, but you're wrong to say FJ doesn't too. The amount of traffic at any one time on here is incredibly high. and Fat Jockey has been the come to place for anyone interested in Festival antepost betting. Kevloaf has some very revealing stats with regards the volume of individual people who are following the forum, and it's not 400, it's many thousands every single day.

In terms of markets moving Q, a combination of well known twitter accounts, Fat Jockey members, and Fat Jockey lurkers will do that. In fact it does do that. As you suggest, it doesn't take too much money for a market to move, and there's some truth in that, and as Jackie has said both Fat Jockey and some well known Twitter accounts posted about Facile Vega being priced up before the price change. But it's still true that quite literally 10 minutes after it was posted on here by the person who requested the price, the price had gone.

Timing of posts and the move in markets is important. Some very well known 'twitterers' seem to post views that have been posted on here very quickly after they are a hot topic of debate. I'm aware that some of said 'twitterers' are members on here without directly contributing, and are very happy to use information from here and then post it on their twitter accounts as fresh content. I have no problem with that if they have the balls to front up and say what they think on here. But they add literally nothing, and just feed off the the forum. The very same accounts that are contributing to quick market moves. So yes, I am calling those guys out to express their views before they shamelessly take and use the content, otherwise I might just start linking the content from here with the timing of it to their accounts, and use their accounts as a platform to advertise the forum as a better and quicker place to get the same information. Information works two ways, and what helps you can also hurt you.

Moving content to the Members section doesn't necessarily stop this, and to be honest, we're all free to talk about horse racing as we wish, to whoever we want to. It's not a closed shop, so I'm not completely in favour of that kind of move. I think ultimately it's detrimental to getting people involved. But having a thread for information that's tucked away somewhere for members who contribute to the forum is okay with me if other people are using information and essentially plagiarising it to promote as their own. I have found instances where things have been literally cut an pasted lazily word for word from Fat Jockey well known Twitter onto twitter accounts, and I have also posted a couple of things on here myself out of curiosity to see how the information is used and who has used it out on the twitter stratosphere. Essentially I am one hundred percent confident that a few well known accounts use the information from here and post it, and then move markets. I've also heard posts on here literally said word for word on podcasts too. In addition to that, another well known 'personality' is also promoting exactly what we do and using the information from here for his 'bookmaker' sponsored' antepost Cheltenham posts and recommended bets. Therefore the combined use of information leaves me completely certain that Fat Jockey moves markets, even if at times it's indirectly.

It may also be true that some accounts on here are also monitored. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who some of us are, and there are some very influential people on Fat jockey's who can cause bookmakers to rack up some quick liabilities. If I were a prominent bookmaker I'd certainly want some of the accounts from people here monitored and in-play to stay ahead of information and views that will hit the public domain.

Finally, I have no 'fear of lurkers'. I would want to encourage any lurkers to join in though, but also respect that not everyone is comfortable interacting on a public forum. We're all made differently. And busy lives and circumstance can make it hard to contribute. Every successful forum has a number of people who look in before they take the plunge and join though, and Fat Jockey has significantly more than most, which is testament to both the quality and quantity of information. And long may that continue.

Why not just name names? I think you're right to feel aggrieved. These people are stealing content for a pat on the back on Twitter. I'm not very active on Twitter but I think that Jimbo jumps man is one of them.

[Quevega]

I know.
What price you giving me?

[Lbur4288]

Why not just name names? I think you're right to feel aggrieved. These people are stealing content for a pat on the back on Twitter. I'm not very active on Twitter but I think that Jimbo jumps man is one of them.

I noticed a lot of parallels from "Racing Josh" and the information from him appearing shortly after on here. I could be well off but he obviously has quite a following and a lot of people will follow what he says blind.

[Fatcatshat]

No problem even if you were Fatcatshat. You're entitled to take a different view, and I wouldn't take offence.

It's the timing that's important here. You're right, a number of 'blue tick' twitter posters will move markets, but you're wrong to say FJ doesn't too. The amount of traffic at any one time on here is incredibly high. and Fat Jockey has been the come to place for anyone interested in Festival antepost betting. Kevloaf has some very revealing stats with regards the volume of individual people who are following the forum, and it's not 400, it's many thousands every single day.

In terms of markets moving Q, a combination of well known twitter accounts, Fat Jockey members, and Fat Jockey lurkers will do that. In fact it does do that. As you suggest, it doesn't take too much money for a market to move, and there's some truth in that, and as Jackie has said both Fat Jockey and some well known Twitter accounts posted about Facile Vega being priced up before the price change. But it's still true that quite literally 10 minutes after it was posted on here by the person who requested the price, the price had gone.

Timing of posts and the move in markets is important. Some very well known 'twitterers' seem to post views that have been posted on here very quickly after they are a hot topic of debate. I'm aware that some of said 'twitterers' are members on here without directly contributing, and are very happy to use information from here and then post it on their twitter accounts as fresh content. I have no problem with that if they have the balls to front up and say what they think on here. But they add literally nothing, and just feed off the the forum. The very same accounts that are contributing to quick market moves. So yes, I am calling those guys out to express their views before they shamelessly take and use the content, otherwise I might just start linking the content from here with the timing of it to their accounts, and use their accounts as a platform to advertise the forum as a better and quicker place to get the same information. Information works two ways, and what helps you can also hurt you.

Moving content to the Members section doesn't necessarily stop this, and to be honest, we're all free to talk about horse racing as we wish, to whoever we want to. It's not a closed shop, so I'm not completely in favour of that kind of move. I think ultimately it's detrimental to getting people involved. But having a thread for information that's tucked away somewhere for members who contribute to the forum is okay with me if other people are using information and essentially plagiarising it to promote as their own. I have found instances where things have been literally cut an pasted lazily word for word from Fat Jockey well known Twitter onto twitter accounts, and I have also posted a couple of things on here myself out of curiosity to see how the information is used and who has used it out on the twitter stratosphere. Essentially I am one hundred percent confident that a few well known accounts use the information from here and post it, and then move markets. I've also heard posts on here literally said word for word on podcasts too. In addition to that, another well known 'personality' is also promoting exactly what we do and using the information from here for his 'bookmaker' sponsored' antepost Cheltenham posts and recommended bets. Therefore the combined use of information leaves me completely certain that Fat Jockey moves markets, even if at times it's indirectly.

It may also be true that some accounts on here are also monitored. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who some of us are, and there are some very influential people on Fat jockey's who can cause bookmakers to rack up some quick liabilities. If I were a prominent bookmaker I'd certainly want some of the accounts from people here monitored and in-play to stay ahead of information and views that will hit the public domain.

Finally, I have no 'fear of lurkers'. I would want to encourage any lurkers to join in though, but also respect that not everyone is comfortable interacting on a public forum. We're all made differently. And busy lives and circumstance can make it hard to contribute. Every successful forum has a number of people who look in before they take the plunge and join though, and Fat Jockey has significantly more than most, which is testament to both the quality and quantity of information. And long may that continue.

In that case I have to retract some of what I said earlier. If people are plagiarising content from here and using it as their own on other platforms it’s rather poor form, and a bit sad tbh!

You’re right to call this out too if you’re certain this is correct

[Quevega]

I have also posted a couple of things on here myself out of curiosity to see how the information is used and who has used it out on the twitter stratosphere.

Spectre going full Coleen Rooney

The plagiarising is a different matter, but it would be more annoying to me if it was a member doing it and not mentioning the source.

[jono]

.
Keep doing the great work and don’t worry why a market has moved. If you want a safety net then make sure you get your own money down before posting anything insightful on here; no one would begrudge anyone of that.

This is essentially the only reason why I’m not a massive fan of flagging horses and targets on here when the market isn’t yet available. So there’s no chance to do so.

I guess I just don’t see much upside to it right now. All that might happen is you then get someone to ask a bookmaker to introduce them or a request a bet. But all that tends to do is get them in at a lower price. And we know depending on who that is with, bookmakers use certain ones to price their markets.

I’ll almost always back the bet before posting on here.
So then I have no worry about what happens to the price from there on in. There’s been a few times where I’ve missed a price by the time I’ve read a case on here. But I’ll except that.
I just don’t have the time to stay on top all the time.

Fast forward 5-6 weeks and I’d have no issue at all once some form of a market and prices are available.

In almost all cases I still think the forum should be as open as possible.

[fatherjohn]

I noticed a lot of parallels from "Racing Josh" and the information from him appearing shortly after on here. I could be well off but he obviously has quite a following and a lot of people will follow what he says blind.

this was who i had in mind as well--- he's often a couple of hours after i see something on the forum and I follow him o might just be coincidence but its something i've seen enough to note.

still i think in balance it's better to keep people engaged in ante post and NH through an open forum as much as we can

[Lbur4288]

this was who i had in mind as well--- he's often a couple of hours after i see something on the forum and I follow him o might just be coincidence but its something i've seen enough to note.

still i think in balance it's better to keep people engaged in ante post and NH through an open forum as much as we can

I'm not against the forum being members only but that wouldn't be to try and protect any particular line of discussion but probably more to try and encourage more people to join in (it could equally backfire). For me, this forum has some of the best racing brains for those of us who enjoy a punt and it'd be great it some of these lurkers could be tempted to join and add some more insight to discussions.

[Faugheen_Machine]

This is essentially the only reason why I’m not a massive fan of flagging horses and targets on here when the market isn’t yet available. So there’s no chance to do so.

I guess I just don’t see much upside to it right now. All that might happen is you then get someone to ask a bookmaker to introduce them or a request a bet. But all that tends to do is get them in at a lower price. And we know depending on who that is with, bookmakers use certain ones to price their markets.

I’ll almost always back the bet before posting on here.
So then I have no worry about what happens to the price from there on in. There’s been a few times where I’ve missed a price by the time I’ve read a case on here. But I’ll except that.
I just don’t have the time to stay on top all the time.

Fast forward 5-6 weeks and I’d have no issue at all once some form of a market and prices are available.

In almost all cases I still think the forum should be as open as possible.

Agreed Jono. Ive said it before but there's no benefit in mentioning certain horses on here before the markets are properly formed and/or you've got your money down.

By Christmas/early January there'll be betting available on all the races and should be plenty of pricing errors for us to cherry pick.

[Istabraq]

Markets are easily moved until the exchanges mature and they’re a long way off that, it takes very little to change a price where a bookmaker can’t manage his position…

[Ray]

I looked at racing josh timeline, he doesnt mention half he stuff thats mentioned on here..there is other lurkers out there no doubt, but i doubt its him based on his content?

[Stormez]

Why not just name names? I think you're right to feel aggrieved. These people are stealing content for a pat on the back on Twitter. I'm not very active on Twitter but I think that Jimbo jumps man is one of them.

I always wonder this, just name & shame the bastards