2022 Championship Division

[Craigy14]

They weren't ducking Shishkin in the Arkle before injury ended that battle, and if I remember correctly the money for Energumene in the week or so leading up to the withdrawal was significant, I think he was backed down to around 2/1 and there was a real chance he'd end up fav...

That’s where I’m at, WPM clearly wanted to take Shishkin on with Energumene so it would baffle me to not do so now they both enter open races.

On collateral Allaho is potentially racing for 5th place in the champion Chase. Shishkin Energumene CPS PTKO, he may get the better of one or 2 depending who all shows up but on what we know he’s 5th imo.

Allaho isn’t going to be getting any faster either is he? Same age as Energumene so can’t see we can view one more suited by 2m than the other when on evidence Energumene smashed everything in Ireland over 2m as a novice and Allaho has always ran over further.

[Craigy14]

Allaho effort over 2m in defeat was very very good & plenty see the defeat as ah he can’t cut it over 2m. Chacun on his day is an absolute beast so he lost nothing in defeat and I said as much on here post race.

Allaho could lose 2/3 times over whatever distance he runs next season as whilst he’s clearly very good he doesn’t always string it
Together. He’d more than be competitive over 2m in Ireland vs anything bar Chacun IMO.

Best case scenario IMO would be lose over 2m, 1/2 times then lose over 20f before the fez and his price be double digits but maybe I’m being very hopeful on that front.

I agree if was a good effort Outlaw, but in terms of winning a champion chase, which is what we are looking for is he up on the top of the list?

It wouldn’t matter to me how many defeats he had had over 2m I wouldn’t be backing him if the 4 I’ve just mentioned in my previous post show up.

Time will tell of course what happens and as Lobos says we may see Mullins run all 3 against each other prior to Cheltenham.

[Lobos]

Personally I can see Mullins chucking all 3 at Shishkin and the Champion Chase. He must be desperate to win the only Championship race to have eluded him. It'll be a bit like the Kenyans bullying the sole GB athlete. For me he has plenty that can go to the Ryanair with a winning chance.

[Lobos]

Duffle Coat appears to be the forgotten horse on this Forum. Any thoughts on him ? He had a fabulous season and looked to absolutely thrive around Cheltenham.

[Kautostar]

Duffle Coat appears to be the forgotten horse on this Forum. Any thoughts on him ? He had a fabulous season and looked to absolutely thrive around Cheltenham.

Stayers hurdle or maybe a pertemps campaign?

[archie]

It's actually 3 mile graded chases that are in short supply in Ireland before Christmas. There are 6 or 7 graded races over 2m to 2m4f in November and December and Willie could run CPS, Energumene or Allaho (or Min for that matter) in any of them because he doesn't really worry about race distance first time out if the horse is telling him that it's ready to run. It's unlikely that they will come to hand at the same time so they're unlikely to be in the same race but Willie would certainly do it if he felt there was no other option.

I'm fairly convinced that, all things being equal and all horses being fit, CPS and Energumene will take the 2 mile route and they will meet at the Leopardstown Christmas meeting. Only if Energumene flops badly will he be upped in trip. Likewise, Allaho will go over the longer trip and will only come down in trip if something is amiss with the other two.

[Outlaw]

I agree if was a good effort Outlaw, but in terms of winning a champion chase, which is what we are looking for is he up on the top of the list?

It wouldn’t matter to me how many defeats he had had over 2m I wouldn’t be backing him if the 4 I’ve just mentioned in my previous post show up.

Time will tell of course what happens and as Lobos says we may see Mullins run all 3 against each other prior to Cheltenham.

Yeah to be clear the double digit price I’d be wanting for the Ryanair, I just think he will be competitive at 2m but agree that I’m not fancying him to be the 2m king just competitive in races in Ireland.

[Fouroverthrutwo]

Duffle Coat appears to be the forgotten horse on this Forum. Any thoughts on him ? He had a fabulous season and looked to absolutely thrive around Cheltenham.

Declared 8.15 Tramore Thursday 12th August

[Spectre]

I took what some took as Willie’s confidence taking Shishkin on, as actually avoiding Envoi Allen personally.

I fully agree with Archie’s assessment of what will happen in the first half of the season by the way. When Chacun beats him I then expect the step up in trip.

[Spectre]

Stayers hurdle or maybe a pertemps campaign?

Yes, I’d agree that one of the two is the most likely campaign for a Duffle Coat. I suspect we’ll know fairly quickly.

[archie]

The official handicappers can't separate Shishkin and Energumene. They both beat Captain Guinness with equal ease and neither has beaten an officially better horse than that one over fences. Even if CPS beats Energumene at Christmas, unless it's by a long way with no excuses, I'd expect them both to turn up for the Dublin Chase at the DRF and then the QM. Allaho would be a banker for the Ryanair if in the same form as last year and, in my view, there's only a small chance that he'd go elsewhere.

All conjecture for at least 3 months though.

[ComplyOrDie]

The official handicappers can't separate Shishkin and Energumene. They both beat Captain Guinness with equal ease and neither has beaten an officially better horse than that one over fences. Even if CPS beats Energumene at Christmas, unless it's by a long way with no excuses, I'd expect them both to turn up for the Dublin Chase at the DRF and then the QM. Allaho would be a banker for the Ryanair if in the same form as last year and, in my view, there's only a small chance that he'd go elsewhere.

All conjecture for at least 3 months though.

Yeah, I agree with all of this archie

I see absolutely no logical reason (at this stage) why Allaho would suddenly be dropped down to the QMCC, given how dominant he was over the Ryanair trip. I expect him to run the same sort of race again next season too.

[Eireman]

Punchestown is about a different a track to Cheltenham you can get. Look at the distance between CPS and Allaho at the last fence and then look at the distance at the line. Yes you could say CPS had been eased down but I don't think it's proven he finishes his races very strongly either yet, particularly after last seasons CC.

I think its longs odds on we see 2 of CPS, Energumene and Allaho in the CC and I think it will ultimately boil down to which proves themselves best at 2 miles between Allaho and Energumene as to who joins CPS in the CC. Ruby already said the CC is a race WM wants to win a lot more than the Ryanair which would have been fairly obvious anyway. If Allaho beats Energumene then I think it's odds on he and CPS both turn up in the CC because WM will know Allaho will eat that hill at 2 miles on a relentless gallop and if he is to be done for pace like at Punchestown then he will also hope that it will be CPS who does it although that will be less likely at Cheltenham than it was at Punchestown because of the difference in track.

[Atlantic Viking]

I think a few people continue to underestimate Energumene over 2miles. His only real downside is being unlucky enough to be running in the Shishkin era. I'd be absolutely flabbergasted (always love an excuse to use that word) if he didn't go to the CC, he's better than both CPS and Allaho in my opinion. I feel like there's been an attempt by some at re-writing history with regards CPS v Allaho race at Punchestown. Watch it back, it was relatively comfortable for CPS whilst Allaho was getting no shortage of reminders a good way out, not jumping in a manner that suggested he was enjoying the pace. In his defence, it's hard to miss how much he jumps to his left and he finished the race strongly, but even then, more in the manner of a horse that wants further rather than a horse who had excuses. And surely nobody on Planet Earth would ever again ride CPS in a CC in the same manner as this year?!

[Lobos]

I'm with your way of thinking Eireman and am also not convinced at all that Cheltenham and the hill suits Chacun. Plenty will be revealed when hopefully they match up. Mullins was excited about Allaho and 2 miles and he'll be given another chance or two to prove himself at that distance. Those 3 flying around the Irish tracks is a mouth watering thought and one I can't wait to see.