2022 Championship Division

[SharpHat]

ComplyOrDie

The question has to be does RP stand a better chance against Allaho, Fakir and possibly Enugermine and A Plus Tard than he does against Minella Indo, Monkfish and Envoi Allen.

For me the middle distance/staying Irish horses right now are just too good, assuming good health for all wherever he goes he’s playing for 3rd/4th at best….

You think a plus tard will go Ryanair? I hadn't considered that, he ran so well in the gold cup I would give that another go with another year's experience behind him

[Istabraq]

You think a plus tard will go Ryanair? I hadn't considered that, he ran so well in the gold cup I would give that another go with another year's experience behind him

I think he could go either way SH, I agree his Gold Cup run was encouraging and he would deserve another shot but I guess the same question applies to that horse, would he have a better chance in a Gold Cup that is likely to have a Monkfish and an Envoi Allen lining up ?

[Spectre]

I do wonder whether Envoi Allen will end up in the Ryanair this season. He wasn't considered a stayer initially, and he ran in a 2m4f point rather than the traditional 3m point. Given 2m4f points are as rare as rocking horse shit connections obviously felt he was speed at that stage. Breeding also doesn't suggest he needs a trip.

Obviously last season ended up as inconclusive given he was pulled up with an injury in the Punchestown Novice Chase when he was stepped up to 3 miles for the first time.

With A Plus Tard surely given a second chance at the Gold Cup after going so close last season, and Allaho presumably defending his crown in the Ryanair, unless Willie genuinely thinks a step back to 2 miles is realistic, Cheveley are in a nice position where they can see how the season pans out for Envoi Allen. With De Bromhead looking stacked for the Gold Cup, you'd think he might have a preference for the Ryanair for Envoi Allen perhaps.

Allaho stepping back to two miles also opens up the possibility of Energumene going to the Ryaniar. Based on end of season entries Willie was certainly thinking that way was a possibility. If that happened Cheveley end up with all three horses split and a genuine chance of winning all three open Grade 1 Championship Chases.

Do I think that is how it will work out? No. But I do think it's a genuine possibility.

[ComplyOrDie]

ComplyOrDie

The question has to be does RP stand a better chance against Allaho, Fakir and possibly Enugermine and A Plus Tard than he does against Minella Indo, Monkfish and Envoi Allen.

For me the middle distance/staying Irish horses right now are just too good, assuming good health for all wherever he goes he’s playing for 3rd/4th at best….

Personally, for me, yes I do think he has a better chance, maybe not of beating Allaho, but think he can beat a horse like Fakir, yeah. I have doubts we'll see Energumene or A Plus Tard running in the Ryanair anyhow, so that makes my decision a little bit easier.

I'm not saying he's going to be close to a Vautour, but could see him going down the same path, King George/Ryanair, especially now he's been readily beat in the Gold Cup already, even with excuses, which every horse seems to have if they get smashed as far as Royale Pagaille did in the race. My excuse for him was the trip at a stiff track, nothing else.

[Saxon Warrior]

I do wonder whether Envoi Allen will end up in the Ryanair this season. He wasn't considered a stayer initially, and he ran in a 2m4f point rather than the traditional 3m point. Given 2m4f points are as rare as rocking horse shit connections obviously felt he was speed at that stage. Breeding also doesn't suggest he needs a trip.

Obviously last season ended up as inconclusive given he was pulled up with an injury in the Punchestown Novice Chase when he was stepped up to 3 miles for the first time.

With A Plus Tard surely given a second chance at the Gold Cup after going so close last season, and Allaho presumably defending his crown in the Ryanair, unless Willie genuinely thinks a step back to 2 miles is realistic, Cheveley are in a nice position where they can see how the season pans out for Envoi Allen. With De Bromhead looking stacked for the Gold Cup, you'd think he might have a preference for the Ryanair for Envoi Allen perhaps.

Allaho stepping back to two miles also opens up the possibility of Energumene going to the Ryaniar. Based on end of season entries Willie was certainly thinking that way was a possibility. If that happened Cheveley end up with all three horses split and a genuine chance of winning all three open Grade 1 Championship Chases.

Do I think that is how it will work out? No. But I do think it's a genuine possibility.

Now the owner has died, and the trainer with the Gold Cup talk no longer training him, then he could go anywhere to maximise his chance of winning.

[The King Pimm]

I wonder if they might try Royale Pagaille back down in trip, maybe the Ryanair. For me, although the figures suggest otherwise, one of his better performances last season was when he defeated Espoir De Romay over 2m 5f on seasonal debut at Haydock, very easily indeed. EDR won either side of that defeat to RP, and was also in massive contention in the G1 Mildmay at Aintree before coming down and handing the race to Chantry House, so the form couldn't have worked out any better really. I'm not convinced a stiff track over 3m 2f is what RP really wants.

I agree COD, the Ryanair trip on soft ground might be ideal trip for RP if he adopts similar tactics to Allaho last season and try’s to pound the rest into submission with a relentless gallop up front. That could be an epic head to head, the cruiser weight version of Might Bite and Native River!!

[Craigy14]

I know WPM ran Allaho over 2m at Punchestown but I just don’t think sticking to that will have much reward for him.

Chacun beat him easily and I think as the Ryanair champ it would be silly to go for the champion chase. Energumene was being primed for a match against Shishkin and I’d be gutted if that doesn’t materialise in the champion chase. He also won very easily over 2m at Punchestown and also smashed everyone in ireland over 2m in the novice chases.

Shishkin is the real deal and Energumene looks the real deal, could be the clash of the festival imo. WPM is a genius but Allaho over 2m not for me.

[Outlaw]

I know WPM ran Allaho over 2m at Punchestown but I just don’t think sticking to that will have much reward for him.

Chacun beat him easily and I think as the Ryanair champ it would be silly to go for the champion chase. Energumene was being primed for a match against Shishkin and I’d be gutted if that doesn’t materialise in the champion chase. He also won very easily over 2m at Punchestown and also smashed everyone in ireland over 2m in the novice chases.

Shishkin is the real deal and Energumene looks the real deal, could be the clash of the festival imo. WPM is a genius but Allaho over 2m not for me.

Allaho effort over 2m in defeat was very very good & plenty see the defeat as ah he can’t cut it over 2m. Chacun on his day is an absolute beast so he lost nothing in defeat and I said as much on here post race.

Allaho could lose 2/3 times over whatever distance he runs next season as whilst he’s clearly very good he doesn’t always string it
Together. He’d more than be competitive over 2m in Ireland vs anything bar Chacun IMO.

Best case scenario IMO would be lose over 2m, 1/2 times then lose over 20f before the fez and his price be double digits but maybe I’m being very hopeful on that front.

[Spectre]

I also like Energumene a lot. I’d much rather see him the Ryanair though. He shifts and jumps right and that trait will find him out against Shishkin who is spectacular. He’d be a sitting duck in the Champion Chase and Willie knows it. Also add that he’s bred for a trip rather than the minimum you’d expect the speed he’s shown so far to diminish slightly and stamina to become more prominent.

The Ryanair just has to be the right race for him, and given he and Allaho are in different ownership you’d hope they’ll get to take each other on if Willie doesn’t try to shoehorn one of them into the 2 mile division to spread his chances.

[Istabraq]

I also like Energumene a lot. I’d much rather see him the Ryanair though. He shifts and jumps right and that trait will find him out against Shishkin who is spectacular. He’d be a sitting duck in the Champion Chase and Willie knows it.

They weren't ducking Shishkin in the Arkle before injury ended that battle, and if I remember correctly the money for Energumene in the week or so leading up to the withdrawal was significant, I think he was backed down to around 2/1 and there was a real chance he'd end up fav...

[Spectre]

It still wouldn’t have stopped Shishkin stuffing him though, and there isn’t a chance Shishkin wouldn’t have been clear favourite. They were something like 8/11 and 2/1 before Energumene’s withdrawal which is pretty clear daylight in betting terms.

[Big Chac]

I also like Energumene a lot. I’d much rather see him the Ryanair though. He shifts and jumps right and that trait will find him out against Shishkin who is spectacular. He’d be a sitting duck in the Champion Chase and Willie knows it. Also add that he’s bred for a trip rather than the minimum you’d expect the speed he’s shown so far to diminish slightly and stamina to become more prominent.

The Ryanair just has to be the right race for him, and given he and Allaho are in different ownership you’d hope they’ll get to take each other on if Willie doesn’t try to shoehorn one of them into the 2 mile division to spread his chances.

Agree with this spec, shishkin will be a tough nut to crack for energumene and needs everything to go right for him. The fact he jumps slightly out to his right is enough to put me off him for the champion chase against shishkin. I think he'll end up in the Ryan air....well I'm more hoping he ends up there.

[Lobos]

It will be the early highlight of the new season for me to see if Mullins puts Chacun, Energumene and Allaho in against each other. Someone said that the lack of mid range races in Ireland almost guarantees that these 3 will take each other on so we will find out quite early who is the better of the 3 over 2 miles and where they are likely to end up

[Istabraq]

It still wouldn’t have stopped Shishkin stuffing him though

Nothing wrong with taking a strong view but not a statement that can be made categorically, there was clearly huge confidence in the Mullins camp and his injury deprived us of a showpiece match.
Who will prove to be the better horse this season is up for debate but Shishkin of course, by staying fit, proved himself to be the best novice 2 miler…

[SharpHat]

As someone who was all in on shishkin last year I was absolutely terrified of energumene prior to his injury. I don't buy the 'he would've stuffed him' narrative, I see the two of them as very very closely matched, I can't have allaho over 2 miles when he was so dominant over 2.5