Champion Hurdle 2020

[Super Raven]

Not at the festival, no.

Afterwards, absolutely.

I'd prefer to see them clash in a real race, if one gets best because 2m isn't right, so what?

For me personally, even more so at the festival, would rather see them clash over 2m4 as this is when they are both at their best. I understand what you mean regarding the stature of the race though. I hope they both run to form so we can see a great race either way.

[Craigy14]

Benie is never a 2 miler, Honeysuckle might be...

I agree.

I think BDD would get beat over 2miles, would have a great chance in the stayers and imo will win the mares should she take that route.

Honeysuckle would have a chance at the champion, no evidence of stayers really and imo will get beat off BDD in the mares.

That’s where I’m at

But I don’t agree that they should go for 2m champion Hurdle just to make it a better race, not if they don’t think they can win it.

[Super Raven]

So what's wrong with making it a grade 2?

If it's at her optimum, would they still go for it?

but its not a grade 2 which is probably another reason why they haven't gone for it..

[Super Raven]

Benie is never a 2 miler, Honeysuckle might be...

i personally don't think either are!

[Can't Catch Me]

So why not have them clash in the Champion Hurdle?

I'd you don't care that the Mares Hurdle is deemed the same or better than the Champion Hurdle, what's the point of the festival really?

Whats the point of the Festival?! Bit of a leap there Kev surely?!

You have two great Mares whose best trip is 2m4f and there is a 2m4f Mares race. Perfect. We have a mouthwatering clash, and the first I can remember in this race.

I don't think this discussion would even be happening if Buveur Dair and Saldier, Klassical Dream etc were fit. The problem this year is the 2m Champion Hurdle division is weak. That's happened before and will happen again. But suggesting Mares should switch from their normal targets because of that doesn't really seem the right answer to me.

[Super Raven]

You have two great Mares whose best trip is 2m4f and there is a 2m4f Mares race. Perfect. We have a mouthwatering clash, and the first I can remember in this race.

This match up could be the starting point it needs for the Mares hurdle to be recognised as a quality race, so trainers don't feel the need to switch their mares to a race that is less than their optimum.

[Quevega]

For me personally, even more so at the festival, would rather see them clash over 2m4 as this is when they are both at their best. I understand what you mean regarding the stature of the race though. I hope they both run to form so we can see a great race either way.

You could argue BDD's best piece of form is over 3 miles though, and has not been tested over 2 mile.
And also that Honeysuckle's best piece of form and her biggest victory was over 2 mile's on good to yielding ground.

In fact I'd say there's no real argument.
So it's you and many others that say 2m 4f is there optimum trip.

There is very little difference in the 2 trips in my mind, although 2 miles to 3 miles is more of a difference (obviously )

There would be very little difference in average speed (probably less than 2mph) average 33/34 mph vs 35/36 mph.
The big factor that is never easy to predict is how economically the race will be run and how each individual horse can cope. The better ones that don't lose very much have usually proved they are more adaptable than the rest.

[chunker86]

Just bring Annie Power back out of retirement and be done with this nonsense.

[SuperTiger]

Just bring Annie Power back out of retirement and be done with this nonsense.

[Quevega]

Just bring Annie Power back out of retirement and be done with this nonsense.

Yep,
She could run around with Galileo riding her (again) and still beat the field.

[UnTempsPourTout]

[QUOTE=Can't Catch Me;153761]

You have two great Mares whose best trip is 2m4f and there is a 2m4f Mares race. Perfect. We have a mouthwatering clash, and the first I can remember in this race.

Think thats a bit harsh, the mares which apples jade won, in between the two ricci mares vroom vroom mag and limini is one of my favourite races of the past 6/7 years at the festival. But i agree with the point the clashes are few and far between.

[Super Raven]

You could argue BDD's best piece of form is over 3 miles though, and has not been tested over 2 mile.
And also that Honeysuckle's best piece of form and her biggest victory was over 2 mile's on good to yielding ground.

In fact I'd say there's no real argument.
So it's you and many others that say 2m 4f is there optimum trip.

and directly from HDB on honeysuckle as the main reason why she stays in the mares hurdle. He also said her most impressive performance was over 2m4 where she got her highest rating.

BDD, yes i could see stepping up to 3m no problem but WM obviously prefers her at 2m4.

[Istabraq]

If only there was a 3 mile hurdle she could run in ...

Or an Aintree festival with a prestigious Intermediate Hurdle

There may well come a day when there are G1 Mares only 2m, 2m 4f and 3m hurdles...

[Quevega]

and directly from HDB on honeysuckle as the main reason why she stays in the mares hurdle. He also said her most impressive performance was over 2m4 where she got her highest rating.

BDD, yes i could see stepping up to 3m no problem but WM obviously prefers her at 2m4.

Trainers are very often wrong. And full of excuses.
They are brilliant with horses don't get me wrong but make mistakes as much as us punters. Some even more so.

A prime example of the trip conundrum is Altior - Compare some of the stuff Henderson says now to what he was saying at start of this season, and the little posh kid who rides him (definitely guilty of excusing bad rides due to the horse needing further)

They change their tune.

Edit - I'm not saying the many others are wrong, just that they're not definitely right either.

[Istabraq]

You could argue BDD's best piece of form is over 3 miles though, and has not been tested over 2 mile.

Unless you're Henry de Bromhead who thought Sizing John was a 2 miler for three years before Jessie won a Gold Cup with him you have to assume that trainers know and understand their horses.
Mullins (we assume) thinks the G1 2m 4f race suits Benie better than the Champion and Stayers hurdle...