Triumph Hurdle 2020

[Redbridge]

Henderson has Grand Roi making hurdles bow tomorrow’s at Fakenham. 33/1 for triumph. Going to take this as if it wins will be significantly shorter as it’s Hendersons I imagine. A bit like when fusil raffles won last year.

He has Monti cristo entered at Cheltenham this saturday.

[Penzance]

I know. Looking forward to seeing him run!

[charlie]

The layers are tightening up the front 3 in betting making it a 3 horse book atm.

I'm with Aspire Tower but after the let down of Apples Shakira 33s never count on them.

Yeh she was disappointing, went off 6/5 as well! (was 4/1 for the Triumph in November!). Go with Allmankind mate, banging value at 7/1. He won the same November trial as Apples but was 4 seconds faster on worse ground whilst carrying 5lb more. He’s just won at Cheptow 24 seconds faster than the last horse who won on heavy there before winning the triumph. Coincidently DDS is the only horse to better his time (by 0.3s) in the last 15 years and that was on soft, good to soft ground. Allmankind powered through the line in a seriously impressive way and would have smashed that time to pieces on better ground. Sire is German Derby winner Sea The Moon so DS claims he’ll be better for good ground stack up. If he were in the green and gold silks he’d be 4/1 or less, and I think he will just continue to shorten.

[Ray]

Couldnt agree more, the horse just pounded through the mud like it was a sprinters track, hell eat that hill for breakfast

[billymag]

Henderson has Grand Roi making hurdles bow tomorrow’s at Fakenham. 33/1 for triumph. Going to take this as if it wins will be significantly shorter as it’s Hendersons I imagine. A bit like when fusil raffles won last year.

All he does is gallop, he should of won at Chelt but Nico rode him for a turn of foot, expect him to go from the front tomorrow. But I cant see him going for Triumph as wont have the experience.

[Redbridge]

All he does is gallop, he should of won at Chelt but Nico rode him for a turn of foot, expect him to go from the front tomorrow. But I cant see him going for Triumph as wont have the experience.

Fusil Raffles was of no surprise on debut the only problem being he had colic 2 weeks prior and would have gone off odds on but for this.

Monti Cristo is the best hope of the double green boys this season.

[Redbridge]

Yeh she was disappointing, went off 6/5 as well! (was 4/1 for the Triumph in November!). Go with Allmankind mate, banging value at 7/1. He won the same November trial as Apples but was 4 seconds faster on worse ground whilst carrying 5lb more. He’s just won at Cheptow 24 seconds faster than the last horse who won on heavy there before winning the triumph. Coincidently DDS is the only horse to better his time (by 0.3s) in the last 15 years and that was on soft, good to soft ground. Allmankind powered through the line in a seriously impressive way and would have smashed that time to pieces on better ground. Sire is German Derby winner Sea The Moon so DS claims he’ll be better for good ground stack up. If he were in the green and gold silks he’d be 4/1 or less, and I think he will just continue to shorten.

Comparing Apples Shakira with Allmankind's races is not like for like, Apples was an headcase and used more energy in her first half mile than Allmankind used throughout a race.
The front three in this market have all front run but I believe Aspire Tower will be better for taking a lead which was the plan on debut until a faller at the first took off and ran wide of the second hurdle where Aspire tried to take off and join the loose horse.
His second race they decided that a sprint was not for them so they set their own fractions and wound it up from the front beating the best Juvenile field either side of the Irish sea this season* imo.
Talking of times Aspire set the best 2 mile time on the card on that debut day the same as Peace & Co diid on his debut.
I would not put anyone off their own choice but for the record I also hold 2 free £5 bets on Allmankind 20s with Sky.GLA.

[charlie]

Comparing Apples Shakira with Allmankind's races is not like for like, Apples was an headcase and used more energy in her first half mile than Allmankind used throughout a race.
The front three in this market have all front run but I believe Aspire Tower will be better for taking a lead which was the plan on debut until a faller at the first took off and ran wide of the second hurdle where Aspire tried to take off and join the loose horse.
His second race they decided that a sprint was not for them so they set their own fractions and wound it up from the front beating the best Juvenile field either side of the Irish sea this season* imo.
Talking of times Aspire set the best 2 mile time on the card on that debut day the same as Peace & Co diid on his debut.
I would not put anyone off their own choice but for the record I also hold 2 free £5 bets on Allmankind 20s with Sky.GLA.

My point was more geared towards one being 7/1 and other going off 6/5 when both won at Cheltenham in the trials and Allmankind having gone on to achieve more since. W

I wouldn't be at all surprised if something came out the pack and beat Aspire Tower at Leopardstown (Rayapour, Gin on Lime, even Echos in Rain). I suppose we will learn more at Leopardstown. If Aspire Tower wins well then he will definitely go favourite, but the nagging doubt you would have is how he would handle Cheltenham (prelims and course) which is a big question mark for a juveniles to answer. Given Allmankind has answered those questions and Aspire Tower hasn't, I am surprised he's shorter in the betting but we'll see.

[Redbridge]

My point was more geared towards one being 7/1 and other going off 6/5 when both won at Cheltenham in the trials and Allmankind having gone on to achieve more since. W

I wouldn't be at all surprised if something came out the pack and beat Aspire Tower at Leopardstown (Rayapour, Gin on Lime, even Echos in Rain). I suppose we will learn more at Leopardstown. If Aspire Tower wins well then he will definitely go favourite, but the nagging doubt you would have is how he would handle Cheltenham (prelims and course) which is a big question mark for a juveniles to answer. Given Allmankind has answered those questions and Aspire Tower hasn't, I am surprised he's shorter in the betting but we'll see.

Charlie point one taken re prices.

But Aspire Tower is a seasoned horse and ran as a 2yr old under Richard Hannon and as a 3yr old ran at a packed Ascot on Sherga Cup day so he's been to many dances, he is a Juvenile Hurdler just like the rest of the field.
I would be more worried that Allmankind was not cherry ripe at present and misses this weekend which is no big deal in itself but it was not the original plan.

[charlie]

Charlie point one taken re prices.

But Aspire Tower is a seasoned horse and ran as a 2yr old under Richard Hannon and as a 3yr old ran at a packed Ascot on Sherga Cup day so he's been to many dances, he is a Juvenile Hurdler just like the rest of the field.
I would be more worried that Allmankind was not cherry ripe at present and misses this weekend which is no big deal in itself but it was not the original plan.

It all comes down to price. The only reason I am really splitting hairs is because both are so short in the market. If Aspire Tower was 12/1 (I'd be smashing that ) then I wouldn't be in a rush to point out that Allmankind had a better flat rating, has a better better pedigree, is a Grade 1 winner and has invaluable Cheltenham experience on his CV. Given Aspire Tower is actually shorter than Allmankind in the market they are important things to take stock of. We'll see how Aspire Tower fairs at Leopardstown. I think he will either piss up and go favorite or one of the more unexposed types will win and the market will open up a bit. If its the former then I would consider taking a position because I do really like the horse for many of the reasons you have stated

[Redbridge]

It all comes down to price. The only reason I am really splitting hairs is because both are so short in the market. If Aspire Tower was 12/1 (I'd be smashing that ) then I wouldn't be in a rush to point out that Allmankind had a better flat rating, has a better better pedigree, is a Grade 1 winner and has invaluable Cheltenham experience on his CV. Given Aspire Tower is actually shorter than Allmankind in the market they are important things to take stock of. We'll see how Aspire Tower fairs at Leopardstown. I think he will either piss up and go favorite or one of the more unexposed types will win and the market will open up a bit. If its the former then I would consider taking a position because I do really like the horse for many of the reasons you have stated

Flat ratings count for nothing over jumps, Mysilv was virtually just above selling class on the flat and was one of the best Juvenile jumpers I have seen, Pentland Hills is another.
I have targetted this race for years because of the lack of options for the age group, the Fred Winter (now Boddles) is a new race and came from the introduction of the 4 day meeting.
I tend to have 3-4 running for me pre Christmas at big prices and then as the form develops I narrow it down and then start smashing into them, last year was my first year without a runner in the event due to being heavy on Fakir D and no cash out option.
Peace & Co was a late comer on the scene but I managed a little 8s and 6s but when I digested what he had actually acheived (pulled hard, best time on the clock that meeting) so its not too late for another late comer to jump into contention and I'm not to proud to take 4s and pile in if I feel its the right one.
This is my least involved Cheltenham for years, last year I was getting stuck into my least favourite race ever but had my biggest bet ever on it.
GL Charlie and all.

[charlie]

Flat ratings count for nothing over jumps, Mysilv was virtually just above selling class on the flat and was one of the best Juvenile jumpers I have seen, Pentland Hills is another.
I have targetted this race for years because of the lack of options for the age group, the Fred Winter (now Boddles) is a new race and came from the introduction of the 4 day meeting.
I tend to have 3-4 running for me pre Christmas at big prices and then as the form develops I narrow it down and then start smashing into them, last year was my first year without a runner in the event due to being heavy on Fakir D and no cash out option.
Peace & Co was a late comer on the scene but I managed a little 8s and 6s but when I digested what he had actually acheived (pulled hard, best time on the clock that meeting) so its not too late for another late comer to jump into contention and I'm not to proud to take 4s and pile in if I feel its the right one.
This is my least involved Cheltenham for years, last year I was getting stuck into my least favourite race ever but had my biggest bet ever on it.
GL Charlie and all.

I'm not having a pop Redbridge (people always say that before they do ) but as someone who has targeted this race for years you will know that 15 of the last 16 winners have raced on the Flat, so saying flat ratings count for nothing over jumps is inaccurate re Triumph. You are right in general, but with a view to this race its certainly relevant (I have to believe that someone referring to Aspire Tower as a ‘seasoned 2yr old under Richard Hannon’ only a few posts ago believes that too)

Music to my ears you think Mysilv is one of the best Juvenile hurdlers you have ever seen. He front ran (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UdPxxv1PN4) just like Allmankind did at Chepstow on heavy ground and was 24 seconds slower carrying 3lbs less. Happy days

Steering the conversation away from the Aspire Tower v Allmankind debate, the horse I have on my shortlist as an improver is Echoes In Rain, think he will come on a lot for that first run and will be in the mix at the DRF.

[squiggsy68]

I'm not having a pop Redbridge (people always say that before they do ) but as someone who has targeted this race for years you will know that 15 of the last 16 winners have raced on the Flat, so saying flat ratings count for nothing over jumps is inaccurate re Triumph. You are right in general, but with a view to this race its certainly relevant (I have to believe that someone referring to Aspire Tower as a ‘seasoned 2yr old under Richard Hannon’ only a few posts ago believes that too)

Music to my ears you think Mysilv is one of the best Juvenile hurdlers you have ever seen. He front ran (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UdPxxv1PN4) just like Allmankind did at Chepstow on heavy ground and was 24 seconds slower carrying 3lbs less. Happy days

Steering the conversation away from the Aspire Tower v Allmankind debate, the horse I have on my shortlist as an improver is Echoes In Rain, think he will come on a lot for that first run and will be in the mix at the DRF.

He??!! (Mysilv)

[charlie]

He??!! (Mysilv)

How could I get the gender wrong of a horse that won the Triumph in 1993, shocking research that

[Quevega]

How could I get the gender wrong of a horse that won the Triumph in 1993, shocking research that

Echoes in Rain is a girl too