Envoi Allen versus Asterion Forlonge

[OverTheLast]

I doubt I'll use Envoi for any more bets.
He was a little disappointing for me, near the end.
I'd have expected a win on the bridle after the lunatic fell.
He does just do enough though, so there is that.
And the second could be decent, but I doubt it.

He put the race to bed in 2 strides Q of 11lb higher .. he toys with his opposition .. nothing will get close to him in March

[Lobos]

I've posted more than once that the stayers hurdle configuration would be ideal for a horse like him.
But they didn't enter him the other day, so will need supplementing.

It'll be annoying to the team as they rate him, so they may want to try and get a big win out of him.

They did similar with Bacardy's a couple of years ago and he's probably not as talented. And doesn't jump right

No hope Q. Just give up on him and move on.

[ComplyOrDie]

Left, Right, both an issue when you jump like that. He'll go flat racing now. Royal Ascot bound.

Factually? Or are you guessing....AGAIN?

[Liammet]

I doubt I'll use Envoi for any more bets.
He was a little disappointing for me, near the end.
I'd have expected a win on the bridle after the lunatic fell.
He does just do enough though, so there is that.
And the second could be decent, but I doubt it.

I think the second has a lot of potential Q

Not sure there is anything for him at Cheltenham this year

Those at the top of the novice division look awesome

would be interesting to see how he fares against Monkfish and co if they ran in the Flogas

[Jorvik]

I doubt I'll use Envoi for any more bets.
He was a little disappointing for me, near the end.
I'd have expected a win on the bridle after the lunatic fell.
He does just do enough though, so there is that.
And the second could be decent, but I doubt it.

I see how that angle can be taken, but for me it wasn't like they were really looking to stretch a lead out between fences, they waited til after the last to put it to bed and the response was more than satisfactory with plenty left in the tank.

[Kevloaf]

I doubt I'll use Envoi for any more bets.
He was a little disappointing for me, near the end.
I'd have expected a win on the bridle after the lunatic fell.
He does just do enough though, so there is that.
And the second could be decent, but I doubt it.

Do you think he'd do that no matter what the opposition?

I think he'd have done the same if Asterion Forlonge had stayed up - just put the race to bed and hold on never really in doubt.


Next change we'll get to see that theory is probably the Marsh (not with AF, but 'better' horses)

I think he's still a good price at 10/11 NRNB - although not a price I've actually been doing anything with.

[Quevega]

Do you think he'd do that no matter what the opposition?

I think he'd have done the same if Asterion Forlonge had stayed up - just put the race to bed and hold on never really in doubt.


Next change we'll get to see that theory is probably the Marsh (not with AF, but 'better' horses)

I think he's still a good price at 10/11 NRNB - although not a price I've actually been doing anything with.

Definitely think the price is still good.
But just wasn't that impressed, like the bookmakers by the looks of it.
Just would have wanted him to get a nudge and kick on more easily, as the second was pushed out to beat mid 130's horse the last day.
And it was a grade 3.
Was a non event really.
We'll have to wait till Cheltenham, for him to be tested properly.

Apparently due to the easterly winds, people in Scandinavia heard a faint voice exclaiming "For Fuck's Sake", at about 12-51 today.

[FinalFurlong91]

Do you think he'd do that no matter what the opposition?

I think he'd have done the same if Asterion Forlonge had stayed up - just put the race to bed and hold on never really in doubt.


Next change we'll get to see that theory is probably the Marsh (not with AF, but 'better' horses)

I think he's still a good price at 10/11 NRNB - although not a price I've actually been doing anything with.

Struggle to see how he's not shorter than shiskin

[Appreciate It]

He's got the speed for 2m and looks like he'd stay further than 2.5m. He wasn't that impressive today bar the 20 metres immediately after the last, where he just goes woosh and pulls away in no time. Struggle to see him getting beat this year, but there is just one nagging doubt in my mind.

For all that his jumping is very neat and accurate, I'll be a bit worried about him until he gets over the 3rd last at Prestbury Park. I always think he lands a little steeply on his front legs and a downhill landing side could exacerbate this and cause him a problem. I just hope that they keep him close enough to any front runners that they aren't tempted to ask him for a big one at that fence. If they let him pop it, I'd be pretty sure he'll have the speed and stamina to make up any ground he loses before the line

[Brooksie]

EA did what he needed to do, I'm guessing he'll always win his races in that manner, was good for a fair few more lengths than the winning margin. AF might be the most frustrating horse in training right now. The fall itself was a carbon copy of the last fall, like Ruby said on both occasions, he just can't find a leg when needed. I'd expect them to now go Leopardstown first week Feb for that 2m5f g1. Imo if they went hurdling it would just be counter productive to the long term goals.

[EnvoyAllen]

We learnt nothing there except Envoi has been brilliant so far, he’s jump really well, travels with ease and can accelerate when he needs to

That’s all we need to learn - “he jumps really well, travels with ease and can accelerate when he needs to”.

But we did learn something today - every 20 or 30 secs he arrives at a fence, he jumps it cleanly and proceeds to the next fence etc....etc...etc....etc.

Jumping a fence cleanly whilst keeping your jockey on board - very trivial, but essential.

And that’s what we continually learn, even today. I learnt ‘you can’t win a race if your jockey is on the floor. For the 2nd successive race.

That’s what I learnt today.

[Big Chac]

That’s all we need to learn - “he jumps really well, travels with ease and can accelerate when he needs to”.

But we did learn something today - every 20 or 30 secs he arrives at a fence, he jumps it cleanly and proceeds to the next fence etc....etc...etc....etc.

Jumping a fence cleanly whilst keeping your jockey on board - very trivial, but essential.

And that’s what we continually learn, even today. I learnt ‘you can’t win a race if your jockey is on the floor. For the 2nd successive race.

That’s what I learnt today.

I think TKP meant we learnt nothing NEW there today, we all know he can jump fence to fence and not touch a twig. I am a huge fan of Envoi's and is my only bet in the Marsh so I really hope he turn up and does the business.

[Quevega]

That’s all we need to learn - “he jumps really well, travels with ease and can accelerate when he needs to”.

But we did learn something today - every 20 or 30 secs he arrives at a fence, he jumps it cleanly and proceeds to the next fence etc....etc...etc....etc.

Jumping a fence cleanly whilst keeping your jockey on board - very trivial, but essential.

And that’s what we continually learn, even today. I learnt ‘you can’t win a race if your jockey is on the floor. For the 2nd successive race.

That’s what I learnt today.

Surpassed yourself with this one.