Arkle/Marsh/RSA/NH Chase - Novice Chasers 2021 (new)

[Kevloaf]

Interesting to see Energumene entered in that CoF race too, sure Willie said he'd be hurdling in his stable tour.

I backed him for the Arkle months ago and had written that off, but maybe a little hope yet...

I thought he was more NH Chase type than Arkle. I may have backed him for it last year but he didn't go chasing

[Quevega]

Janidil entered up in the 2m 4f novice chase at Gowran on Friday - first step towards the NH Chase!!!!

So Willie's idea that he could be an Arkle horse has already been binned by the look of it.

You're talking like someone who has no clue how the trainer operates whatsoever.

[nortonscoin200]

You're talking like someone who has no clue how the trainer operates whatsoever.

I don't - spot on Q.

But I'd honestly be interested if you could explain to me how running Janidil over 2m 4f makes sense if he is being aimed at the Arkle.

Do you expect Shishkin to start over 2m 4f?

[Arkle]

I was disappointed with latest exhibitions run at the weekend but won’t give up on him yet there was a jump about 4 out which was particularly good made lengths think ground and maybe cooper minding him abit hopefully

[Quevega]

I don't - spot on Q.

But I'd honestly be interested if you could explain to me how running Janidil over 2m 4f makes sense if he is being aimed at the Arkle.

Do you expect Shishkin to start over 2m 4f?

No Shishkin will start over 2m 2f.
And he's trained by another man.

The last 2 arkle winners both raced over 2m 4f prior to winning the arkle.

Willie has repeatedly stated that he runs them over various trips and is not concerned about this early in there careers, as much as them being ready to run and the ground being soft enough for most of his better ones.

& Henderson will regularly look at the novices chase at ascot just before Christmas over 2m 3f for his arkle horses also.
Fakir won the drinmore also.

I could go on and on,
your original comment (stood alone) was daft, and there's no escaping that.

[Lobos]

Nothing wrong with starting Arkle horses over 2 1/2 first time. First run is first and foremost about getting chasing experience and getting a clear round. Far better chance of that going slower over 2 1/2 miles . Plenty of time to take in a couple of 2 mile races after.

[Quevega]

Nothing wrong with starting Arkle horses over 2 1/2 first time. First run is first and foremost about getting chasing experience and getting a clear round. Far better chance of that going slower over 2 1/2 miles . Plenty of time to take in a couple of 2 mile races after.

Yep, quite possible another reason some trainers would do this. And against inferior opposition usually too
You don't have your first driving lesson in a Ferrari on the M1.

[Lobos]

Yep, quite possible another reason some trainers would do this. And against inferior opposition usually too
You don't have your first driving lesson in a Ferrari on the M1.

Beautiful Anology

[nortonscoin200]

No Shishkin will start over 2m 2f.
And he's trained by another man.

The last 2 arkle winners both raced over 2m 4f prior to winning the arkle.

Willie has repeatedly stated that he runs them over various trips and is not concerned about this early in there careers, as much as them being ready to run and the ground being soft enough for most of his better ones.

& Henderson will regularly look at the novices chase at ascot just before Christmas over 2m 3f for his arkle horses also.
Fakir won the drinmore also.

I could go on and on,
your original comment (stood alone) was daft, and there's no escaping that.

Willie has won the Arkle four times in the last 6 years.

Those four - Duc de Genievres, Footpad, Douvan and Un de Sceaux - all started their chasing careers over a distance short of 2miles 4 furlongs.

This quartet had a total of 12 prep races over fences before the Festival. Only one of those races was over as far as 2m 4f.


DUC de GENIEVRES (Arkle winner in 2019): is the only one of the four to have run in a chase over 2miles 4furlongs before the Arkle and IMO there were special circumstances in his case.

He was still a maiden for Willie after 5 runs over hurdles. Four of those races were over 2m 4f and he only ran once at 2miles. He was 5th in the Ballymore.

They obviously saw him as a two-and-a-half miler at the time so it was logical to s start his chasing career over 2m 3f where he was second to A Plus Tard, beaten just over3 lengths.

His next race was over the minimum trip where he was a six-length third to Cilaos Emery.

He then won by 15 length over 2m 4f before he was Willie's only Arkle runner.

I'd say it's pretty obvious that DDG was not seen as one of the stable's most likely Arkle contenders at the start of the season. He may have ended up in the race almost by default because Willie had. nothing else in the race. He saddled 3 in the Marsh.

FOOTPAD (2018): all three of his prep runs for the Arkle were over 2m 1f.

DOUVAN (2016): His three prep runs were over 2m 1f, 2m 1f and 2 miles.

UN de SCEAUX (2015): His 3 prep runs were over 2m 2f, 2 miles and 2 miles.


These are the facts Q - not my opinion, just facts.

So I'm struggling to see how you can say my original comment was daft - although it did give me a chuckle (certainly no offence taken Q).

Willie's last horse to win the NH Chase was Rathvinden.

And guess what? He started his chasing career over 2 miles 4 furlongs. He was pulled up and missed the rest of the season.

But when Rathvinden resumed his novice chasing career the following season 7 of his 10 prep runs were run between 2m 31/2f and 2m 5f.

Food for thought.

[Birds Nest]

Willies arkle horses have started their careers over various trips. Last one to start over 2m 4f was champagne fever... He didnt do too bad..

[Quevega]

Willie has won the Arkle four times in the last 6 years.

Those four - Duc de Genievres, Footpad, Douvan and Un de Sceaux - all started their chasing careers over a distance short of 2miles 4 furlongs.

This quartet had a total of 12 prep races over fences before the Festival. Only one of those races was over as far as 2m 4f.


DUC de GENIEVRES (Arkle winner in 2019): is the only one of the four to have run in a chase over 2miles 4furlongs before the Arkle and IMO there were special circumstances in his case.

He was still a maiden for Willie after 5 runs over hurdles. Four of those races were over 2m 4f and he only ran once at 2miles. He was 5th in the Ballymore.

They obviously saw him as a two-and-a-half miler at the time so it was logical to s start his chasing career over 2m 3f where he was second to A Plus Tard, beaten just over3 lengths.

His next race was over the minimum trip where he was a six-length third to Cilaos Emery.

He then won by 15 length over 2m 4f before he was Willie's only Arkle runner.

I'd say it's pretty obvious that DDG was not seen as one of the stable's most likely Arkle contenders at the start of the season. He may have ended up in the race almost by default because Willie had. nothing else in the race. He saddled 3 in the Marsh.

FOOTPAD (2018): all three of his prep runs for the Arkle were over 2m 1f.

DOUVAN (2016): His three prep runs were over 2m 1f, 2m 1f and 2 miles.

UN de SCEAUX (2015): His 3 prep runs were over 2m 2f, 2 miles and 2 miles.


These are the facts Q - not my opinion, just facts.

So I'm struggling to see how you can say my original comment was daft - although it did give me a chuckle (certainly no offence taken Q).

Willie's last horse to win the NH Chase was Rathvinden.

And guess what? He started his chasing career over 2 miles 4 furlongs. He was pulled up and missed the rest of the season.

But when Rathvinden resumed his novice chasing career the following season 7 of his 10 prep runs were run between 2m 31/2f and 2m 5f.

Food for thought.

That's a much better comment. With much more context.
But the original comment was still daft.
It's simply not a good idea to conclude the race target for a horse on it's first starting trip in a beginners chase. Or exclude one either.
Especially one of Mullins.

[Lobos]

Felix Desjy raised 10lbs to 148 by Timeform.

[charlie]

Are we expecting footage from tomorrows Newbury open day? Can't remember last year if the work was filmed.

[Lobos]

Are we expecting footage from tomorrows Newbury open day? Can't remember last year if the work was filmed.

Yep, full coverage. Cameras are there

[charlie]

Yep, full coverage. Cameras are there

Excellent, cheers Lobos