Arkle/Marsh/RSA/NH Chase - Novice Chasers 2021 (new)

[Big Bucks]

I just looked through all my bets

Have appreciate it for the ballymore in so many bets its absolutely heartbreaking

Same! And in my Yankee/Lucky 15s hes in with Shiskin, envoi and monkfish at decent prices. (None with all 3 but in a few with 2 of them) going through them Shiskin, Monkfish, Epatante and Appreciate it was my fav! Then another envoi, shiskin, epatante and tiger roll! But all in all I really hope AI goes Ballymore! But suppose need the hot pots to get there first aswell!

[TheRowebot]

Backed a 100/1 RAB a few weeks back with Shishkin, Epatante and Envoi to win with Concertista (mares) and Paisley (stayers) to place.

Goes without saying I was glad to see Paisley chin Thyme Hill and Concertista keep progressing!

[EnvoyAllen]

I agree

Id personally have stamina doubts for envoi at Cheltenham

I really really really hope we get to see them go head to head at punchestown at the end of this season

I’d have disagree with your point about ‘I’d personally have stamina doubts for envoi at Cheltenham’

Well, not disagree as such Mr FinalFurlong, but more along the lines of the fact that currently I don’t believe any of us - punters or bookmakers alike have any kind of evidence to suggest Envoi Allen has ‘stamina doubts’ as we havn’t seen him run in public) over a distance of 2m 5f yet. Nobody’s seen anything. You may indeed be right, but with all known evidence thus far, it would be nigh on impossible for any bookmaker or punter to deduce he’s got ‘stamina doubts’ based on the evidence of him only running between 2 miles and the intermediate distance.

All we know for sure is that Mr Elliott has specifically stated,and been quoted, as saying he was bought to be a Gold Cup horse. Whether Envoi Allen will become one, and run very competitively in one, I believe it’s fair to say we are all completely blind to at the moment, for absolutely certainty.

Alas, we can all hope!

[Kevloaf]

I’d have disagree with your point about ‘I’d personally have stamina doubts for envoi at Cheltenham’

Well, not disagree as such Mr FinalFurlong, but more along the lines of the fact that currently I don’t believe any of us - punters or bookmakers alike have any kind of evidence to suggest Envoi Allen has ‘stamina doubts’ as we havn’t seen him run in public) over a distance of 2m 5f yet. Nobody’s seen anything. You may indeed be right, but with all known evidence thus far, it would be nigh on impossible for any bookmaker or punter to deduce he’s got ‘stamina doubts’ based on the evidence of him only running between 2 miles and the intermediate distance.

All we know for sure is that Mr Elliott has specifically stated,and been quoted, as saying he was bought to be a Gold Cup horse. Whether Envoi Allen will become one, and run very competitively in one, I believe it’s fair to say we are all completely blind to at the moment, for absolutely certainty.

Alas, we can all hope!

Surely you can appreciate here that the opposite is true.

Until we see it, the stamina is a doubt "on all known evidence". Everything you're saying is to justify that you think he'll stay without evidence.

I personally agree with you thst he will stay no problem but the fact we don't know so we have it to prove, not FF


Technically Monkfish needs to prove he stays the GC trip too so you could have stamina doubts about him 'technically' although I doubt anyone actually does at the moment.

[Istabraq]

Very good point. Not even thought of that. Would have made a beautiful early season treble. Anyone done it on here ???? Never happened I my time I don't think.

Must have been in a Sky RAB...

[Rooster Booster]

I have the three of them plus thyme hill stayers, honeysuckle mares, chacun QM, billaway and aaaaagh goshen ch in doubles thru to eight folds. I am highly superstitious and never usually reveal such bets in fear of jinxing but as a new member I wanted to be transparent. I think ruby Walsh put a chunk of them up some time in the summer

[Rooster Booster]

I have the three of them plus thyme hill stayers, honeysuckle mares, chacun QM, billaway and aaaaagh goshen ch in doubles thru to eight folds. I am highly superstitious and never usually reveal such bets in fear of jinxing but as a new member I wanted to be transparent. I think ruby Walsh put a chunk of them up some time in the summer

Have similar with another firm with BDD mares chase and fury road NHC before they said he was staying hurdling

[Geegees]

If everything goes to plan in a few months time I’d be tempted to get them both onside with an Envoi (Champion Chase) Monkfish (Gold Cup) double as I have no doubt EA would have the speed for that trip.

Having said that I couldn’t not look forward to a clash. Could be this generations Kauto v Denman...!

would not be rushing for Envoi in the 2022 CC personally as I think shishkin is looking pretty solid in the 2m division

[Quevega]

Having watched the Dawn Run documentary (thanks Jono)

I think JLT should treble the prize money for the Melling Chase this year.

On the proviso that Shishkin & Envoi Allen turn up. Having won their respective races at the festival.

It may even tempt Chacun Pour soir & Min, or any festival winners for that matter.

Even the flannel would surely allow this to happen, and after such a shitty year it would be a great sporting gesture for connections to make this happen.

[EnvoyAllen]

Having watched the Dawn Run documentary (thanks Jono)

I think JLT should treble the prize money for the Melling Chase this year.

On the proviso that Shishkin & Envoi Allen turn up. Having won their respective races at the festival.

It may even tempt Chacun Pour soir & Min, or any festival winners for that matter.

Even the flannel would surely allow this to happen, and after such a shitty year it would be a great sporting gesture for connections to make this happen.

It’s interesting - I remember Nicky Henderson providing a lovely ‘sporting gesture’ for everyone just before Christmas last year by offering up Altior over the extended distance against Cyrname on his ‘home turf’ - it nearly finished Altior, and Henderson has been forthright ever since saying he was angry he bowed to what appeared ‘public pressure’, as such.

At the very top level, sporting gestures are few and far between. It’s only the winning that matters.

I’ve got a sneaky feeling that should Envoi both make it to Cheltenham and win, that’ll be his season over. Gordon seems to be about wrapping his prized possession up in cotton wool already - he’s named the date he’ll next run him, and he’s named the Marsh as the race he’ll run at Cheltenham. I think any punter wishing to then see Envoi stepped up to 3 miles a month later at Punchestown may be a tiny bit disappointed. I think Gordon will step him up to 3 miles in October next year for the first time, in a nothing race at prohibitive odds and literally go down the same route (over extended distances) he’s going this season.

The ‘sporting gesture’ of seeing Envoi run his first race over 3 miles a month after a championship race at Cheltenham might just be a touch fanciful. Of course, just my thoughts.

[archie]

Only 3 weeks between Cheltenham and Aintree this season as well.

[Quevega]

It’s interesting - I remember Nicky Henderson providing a lovely ‘sporting gesture’ for everyone just before Christmas last year by offering up Altior over the extended distance against Cyrname on his ‘home turf’ - it nearly finished Altior, and Henderson has been forthright ever since saying he was angry he bowed to what appeared ‘public pressure’, as such.

At the very top level, sporting gestures are few and far between. It’s only the winning that matters.

I’ve got a sneaky feeling that should Envoi both make it to Cheltenham and win, that’ll be his season over. Gordon seems to be about wrapping his prized possession up in cotton wool already - he’s named the date he’ll next run him, and he’s named the Marsh as the race he’ll run at Cheltenham. I think any punter wishing to then see Envoi stepped up to 3 miles a month later at Punchestown may be a tiny bit disappointed. I think Gordon will step him up to 3 miles in October next year for the first time, in a nothing race at prohibitive odds and literally go down the same route (over extended distances) he’s going this season.

The ‘sporting gesture’ of seeing Envoi run his first race over 3 miles a month after a championship race at Cheltenham might just be a touch fanciful. Of course, just my thoughts.

Henderson is full of shit. Finished his season my arse.
He offered up nothing in that race except he thought he had a KIng George winner and potential Gold cup winner.
He then bottled it when his superstar got beat (no excuses)
And now he's fucking talking about going further again, since he got beat again.
He's just whining.
With his glazed over eyes.

The Melling is 2m 4f on a flat track. (so less fanciful and more sloppy on your part)
A Perfect match up for these two at this stage of their careers.

And bollocks to the three weeks.
This is only an issue if the horse doesn't come out of the race fit and well, and when it suits trainers to say it's an issue.

I went to the Punchestown meeting when Gordon was trying to beat Willie for the trainers title, and they were running their horses every fucking day.
Not bothered then about the welfare side were they ?

[jonthehammer]

Henderson is full of shit. Finished his season my arse.
He offered up nothing in that race except he thought he had a KIng George winner and potential Gold cup winner.
He then bottled it when his superstar got beat (no excuses)
And now he's fucking talking about going further again, since he got beat again.
He's just whining.
With his glazed over eyes.

The Melling is 2m 4f on a flat track. (so less fanciful and more sloppy on your part)
A Perfect match up for these two at this stage of their careers.

And bollocks to the three weeks.
This is only an issue if the horse doesn't come out of the race fit and well, and when it suits trainers to say it's an issue.

I went to the Punchestown meeting when Gordon was trying to beat Willie for the trainers title, and they were running their horses every fucking day.
Not bothered then about the welfare side were they ?

haha i agree with pretty much most of that. One minute he is saying hes catching pigeons at home and can win the Kings Stand, now hes saying hes too slow for 2 miles. Think hes had too much Xmas Cheer.

[EnvoyAllen]

Henderson is full of shit. Finished his season my arse.
He offered up nothing in that race except he thought he had a KIng George winner and potential Gold cup winner.
He then bottled it when his superstar got beat (no excuses)
And now he's fucking talking about going further again, since he got beat again.
He's just whining.
With his glazed over eyes.

The Melling is 2m 4f on a flat track. (so less fanciful and more sloppy on your part)
A Perfect match up for these two at this stage of their careers.

And bollocks to the three weeks.
This is only an issue if the horse doesn't come out of the race fit and well, and when it suits trainers to say it's an issue.

I went to the Punchestown meeting when Gordon was trying to beat Willie for the trainers title, and they were running their horses every fucking day.
Not bothered then about the welfare side were they ?

I was referring to the Punchestown Festival, not the Aintree one.

However, points noted.

[Quevega]

I was referring to the Punchestown Festival, not the Aintree one.

However, points noted.

Not sure why you brought Punchestown into the equation in your response.

And it was the second use of 'sporting gesture' that led me to think otherwise.

At the very top level, sporting gestures are few and far between. It’s only the winning that matters.

And it's "winning money that matters", otherwise it's only ever a 'sporting gesture'.